Should they stay or should they go (now)...

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by Soaker888, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

    Jan 30, 2005
    Denver, CO
    You either need to back this up with something more credible than hearsay, or drop it.
     
  2. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I couldn't disagree with you more. We had some really bad games back then (one thats still burned in my memory was a Chivas away fixture in 2007 iirc), but the recent San Jose and Portland away games are about the worst soccer I've ever seen this club put on display...ever. This current team easily as bad, or worse, than the Clavijo era sides. Granted, Pareja's completely non-extant tactics and apparent absence of coaching reminds me a lot of Clavijo.

    Can I buy some pot from you?
     
  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cite or STFU.
     
  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll grant you that hte San Jose game was that bad, but I don't think Portland was. It wasn't good, but it wasn't Clavijo-esque.

    But the San Jose game is one of only a couple of games this season where they've been that horrible. Other than that they've been better than those 2007/8 teams.
     
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  5. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Strongly disagree. There were a number of times our back line was exposed in embarrassing fashion in that game. Had we been facing a team better than Portland (there are a lot of those), we would have gotten torched. If anything, Portland made us look better than we really were.

    Again, I disagree. Any team that has made as many fundamental mistakes in passing, shooting, positioning, and tackling should not be considered "good". We've had a lot of games where there have been short spells of good play (comparatively speaking), between 10 and 30 minutes...the problem is that the game is actually 90 minutes. I don't consider any game "good" if we show promise for few minutes but then completely tank when it matters. Thats a big reason why we've lost 18 games this year, and it's why we will lose 20+ games this year.
     
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At no point did I call this team good, just better than the wretched 2007/8 teams. That still leaves them in the bad category.
     
  7. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    Fort Collins, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel like I should know this already, but did you see the same problems last year? I know that I did. Maybe not so much the shooting/positioning, but definitely the inaccurate passes and poor form or technique. I can still visually see Larentowicz tearing Kimura a new one for yet another inaccurate pass in one of the games last year. (Nothing is meant by picking Kimura, it is just an image that stuck with me. Ginger's face was redder than his hair!) The fact we won some games made it more palatable in the past, but I feel like with our owners and the current position of MLS, we will have to live with having people with deficiencies in passing/skills and those that do have it will be deficient in fitness, positioning, work rate, etc. If they come close to having the full package they will be DPs or some place else getting paid appropriately.
     
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  8. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

    Jan 30, 2005
    Denver, CO
    Out of curiosity, what was it about 07/08 that makes you hold those seasons in less esteem?

    I remember not enjoying those seasons at all either. I remember maddening inconsistency, inability to score in '07, the doghouse, the Open Cup loss to Seattle, and the RSL losses in particular. But I know you're a numbers guy like I am, and by the numbers, this season is on pace to finish worse than those years in about every category, and there's been a few painful/embarrassing moments this year too that may be comparable, YMMV. So I feel like I'm forgetting something.
     
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  9. Stuart95

    Stuart95 Member+

    Mar 11, 2012
    NoVA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't expect him to back out of his contract. Rather, just go ahead and announce his retirement, have him come on for the last few minutes of the last home game, get the crowd's applause and transition to being a broadcaster.
     
  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A combination of the offense (29 goals in 2007 in 30 games) and the feeling the players had given up, especially in 2008. This year sucks but we are actually scoring (on pace for 42-43 goals) and it feels like the defensive mistakes are fixable.
     
  11. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    For me the difference is not subtle. I sat back in my seat those years never expecting the Rapids to play well. Scoring was a fluke. I remember using the phrase boys against men and amateurish on a regular basis. It was the norm. There were some games like that this year as well, but a handful, not a 2/3 season full. Those 42-43 goals could easily be 50+ if Omar and recently Casey (and others) had the composure they had in 2010. Many of those goals and potential goals weren't hopeful flukes it came from good play.

    Many the games, even those of the past few months, I felt the team was competing. I would whack my head again and again at bonehead defensive errors and blown scoring chances. But for much of the game, I thought the team could get a result. Inevitably, a blown offensive chance and another blown defensive play would seal the fate.

    I don't know how many times I posted and thought, this team has mastered the art of losing. I used that phrase because, for me, it accurately describes how I felt the about the game. It could have gone either way, but they figured out how to lose. Back then, when I used the phrases boys against men or amateurish, for me the game held out little to no hope for a result.

    It's those feelings that led me to renew now and not wait the play of the season faded from my memory.
     
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  12. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

    Jan 30, 2005
    Denver, CO
    Just throwing this out there:

    In 2012, in 29 games played so far, the Rapids have taken 384 shots. 131 of those have been on goal. Shooting accuracy of 34.11%. 36 goals on those 131 shots, giving them a conversion rate of 27.48%. Overall scoring percentage (36/384) is 9.38%​

    In 2007, in 30 games, the Rapids took 322 shots. 117 of those were on goal. Shooting accuracy of 36.33%. 27 goals on those 117 shots, giving them a conversion rate of 23.07%. Overall scoring percentage (27/322) is 8.38%​

    In 2008, in 30 games, the Rapids took 397 shots. 162 of those were on goal. Shooting accuracy of 40.81%. 43 goals on those 162 shots, giving them a conversion rate of 26.5%. Overall scoring percentage (27/322) is 10.83%​

    So by the numbers, in '07 the offense was worse at finishing than this year, but better at putting the ball on frame. With '08's numbers, there's no easy way to separate out Clavijo's stats from Smith's stats, but they were better at putting the ball on frame, slightly less lethal, but better at scoring overall than this year.

    "Flukiness" is entirely subjective - I'm with you guys on the '07 season feeling that way, but not '08, and I feel like this year has been about as fluky as '07. The numbers themselves concur that '07 was pretty pathetic in terms of our effectiveness, but the gap between that year and this one was not as massive as I was expecting to see - all that really separated the two sets of stats is about 4 goals (31/117=26.5%, 31/322=9.63%)

    As far as the players giving up, I'll agree that this year, the majority have not, while by about 10 games into '08, the majority of players had appeared to have given up. Rumors are rumors, but have we not heard some similar sentiment from the minority this year, though? (such as, the scuttlebutt that came out after the Kimura trade?).
     
  13. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

    Jan 30, 2005
    Denver, CO
    I decided to address this part in a second post, because that one was long enough as it was...the defense. The mistakes are undoubtedly fixable. Personally, my stance is that we had these same "mental mistake" problems, lack of depth and lack of speed problems last year, and did nothing to fix them this year.

    And when compared to '07 and '08 (Ihemelu and Erpen, any one?), I see a lot of similarities. By midway through '07, we had traded Beckerman and were no longer shielding our backline with 2 D-mids. In '08, we switched formations a ton, sometimes we had Labrocca playing shielder with Pablo, other times we played with just Pablo in a diamond with Christian Gomez, eventually we settled into a 4-5-1 with two shielding mids again...the point I'm making is it eerily parallels how Oscar has attempted to adjust our midfield structure and starters in order to try to help out a backline that is prone to mistakes if put under enough pressure.
     
  14. COYP

    COYP Member

    Aug 5, 2010
    Denver
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have had a lot of boneheaded defensive plays. Marvell Wynne passing it backwards to the wrong team is an example. However, I think some of the "boneheaded" plays are more than just individual failures but failure to properly defend in the new system. If we are playing a 4-3-3 or variation of a 4-3-3 the way to play against it is to be patient and counterattack when our defense is exposed. I think this has happened a lot this year and in some ways has made it seem like we are more competitive in some games then we really are. Some teams (Seattle comes to mind) have been content to let us have possession and take our nonthreatening shots and wait to counter when our defense is exposed and out of position.

    I think some of the plays where a defender appears out of position are more than just bonehead plays but a failure to implement the proper defensive system. Not all but certainly some of them.
     
  15. RapidsThugLess

    May 5, 2012
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids

    Is it even possible to configure stats where the owners have shown much more of a primary support position to their soccer team(s) than the more obvious tertiary?

    Is proving germane, organic synchrony even relative to success curves?
     
  16. dismemberment

    dismemberment Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The beauty of having friends who work on medical staff and front offices for other teams in the league :D.... keep thinking Pablo's suffering from a concussion .. if he had that bad of a concussion he wouldn't be doing commentary or going around town in his nice car partying every weekend.

    ******** pablo you need to get you're head out the asses and stop thinking there isn't issues within the staff the front office and the player's. we all know pablo has a bad ego this is his way of pulling a fast one on us. the only reason he stayed in colorado is because no other team would start him.
     
  17. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Denver CO
    So instead of a link or presenting us with evidence you elude to a friend of yours committing a major HIPAA violation and dig in your heels deeper? I’ll believe what my instincts tell me to believe, thank you.
     
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  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So the Rapids are sharing medical information with other teams? Right. :rolleyes:
     
  19. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly, dismemberment you need to stop these unsubstantiated rumors, your Thompson drug use and now this. This is not the place unless you have some public document to support it.
     
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  20. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    I think BigSoccer management needs to consider the possible implications of allowing wild unsubstantiated allegations like dismemberment's to stay on their forums. Even if the allegations are legal BigSoccer should consider if such comments, and possibly the poster, are in the best interest of the soccer community.
     
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  21. COYP

    COYP Member

    Aug 5, 2010
    Denver
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not really interested in the conspiracy theories but do we plan on hearing an announcement from Pablo prior to the end of the season? We are running out of time a bit. You would think if he is actually going to retire the Rapids would be wise to acknowledge it this season if possible.

    Has any journalist asked him point blank about his plans?
     
  22. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not in the same wildly fruitful abundance. While corn and soybeans aren't doing so well this year, we're seeing one of the biggest yields of the Fail crop in almost a generation.

    We've had dismemberment provide some great fertilizer too (smells awful though).
     
  23. dismemberment

    dismemberment Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    we all know Thompson used to have drug problems but became a born again christian..... if you didn't know that then i question your rapid knowledge. team's release weekly injury reports nothing i am told is an illegal act. consider it a unconfirmed rumor what have you. but i promise this to you. pablo is not injured his seriously not. my biggest problem is yes his a great player a definite legend. But if his concussion's were costing him this much time off the field. a few years ago would of been way better time to replace him and deal with this situation bestowed upon us. i know what i watched on my dvr i know how to read lips i've actually gone to classes and training for this. pablo does not want to play football anymore but he also doesn't want to retire. his on the crossroad's and path on really calling it a career. which he should his fat salary has just been sitting on us all year long. if he had lack of ambition to play period and the rapids knew this i blame the staff and front office. we could of just told him well will release you this year and if you want to come back we can work out a one year deal and a pay-cut. if he cared like you people believe this wouldn't of happened. you can see it in his face his body language and his worth ethic over the past few season's on top of these mysterious injuries that keep him away for month's. his concussion is worse then say crosby? i think not dude has taken more damage his short career then pablo has in his last 8 season's i love pablo don't get me wrong i've been involved with this team from an early age 11-22. i've met some of these guy's actually spent time with them no camera's no media no coach. trust me there is alot wrong with each of them. i could go into detail and break it down. but you would all think i'm just massively lieing and trying to just get the forums crazy. sorry but I'm a lot more mature then that.
     
  24. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Conor Casey is actually a gang-banger for the Montbello Crips. Thats actually the reason why he doesn't play.

    I unfortunately can't show you guys any proof, because he said to me "Bitch! Ya snitch on C-Dubz, and I cap yo cracka ass wit mah Glock 21! Bang-bang foo!"
     
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  25. dismemberment

    dismemberment Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    casey and omar are to hard on them shelves if they don't do well in the first shots or not able to beat anyone they lose it during the game and it carry's over they can't remove that chip from the shoulder's sucks great players but they just got that problem in there personalities you can see it in conor's face on the bench. you can see it in omar's body language all year
     

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