Should they stay or should they go (now)...

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by Soaker888, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. COYP

    COYP Member

    Aug 5, 2010
    Denver
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. Moor is slow and I don't think he is a great crosser of the ball (despite his 2 assists last night). I would prefer him in the Center sign another starting caliber CB and possible look to Wynne at RB. However, it appears that we may be more interested in moving Moor to the outside. I still think the Rapids are looking for a CB so maybe one of them could be traded.
     
    22SteveD repped this.
  2. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    Fort Collins, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couple of points
    1. Drew is left footed. I've been pretty impressed with his ability to play on the right. The first game he was there I noticed he was scared to cross with his right, but now he isn't and it has been getting better.
    2. I think the only reason why Drew is at RB and not Marvell is because they need to use Marvell's speed to compensate for Marshall's lack of speed. Remember how bad the games were when Wynne was hurt and Drew and Marshall were getting torched?
     
  3. Totoro

    Totoro Member+

    Dec 3, 2009
    Colorado
    If one doesn't think Wynne can handle CB, not sure why we'd want him at RB. $300,000 for a right back with limited ball skills? But aside from injuries and the occasional misjudgment, he seemed pretty damn good at CB for 2 seasons.
     
    22SteveD repped this.
  4. 30Something

    30Something Member

    Jun 3, 2004
    5280 Feet
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Marshall is as good as gone.

    I agree Wynne on the flank makes a lot more sense in a 4-3-3. The guy is a train wreck with the ball at his feet, but he has the pace to close down the outside gaps created in the system.

    Talking defense for a minute....the thing that has been bothering me about the defense is that they ALWAYS leave the far post unmarked. I know that is the general philosophy in a 4-3-3, but someone needs to keep an eye open out there. There was one exchange last night (75th min or so) where the ball was coming down our right side. Moor (our RB) had migrated all the way to the near post, inside of both Wynne and Marshall. The ball was switched to a wide open Timber, who (as they did all night) fire one just over the frame. That's high-school stuff right there.
     
  5. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    Fort Collins, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now after seeing Thomas play a couple of games I am getting a bit more of an idea of who should stay or go, but I also wanted a quick place to see the players wage/age, so I took the numbers from the 8/1/2012 salary report from the union and put them in a spreadsheet and added players ages. I thought I would share the file with all of you for your own purposes too. (It is a tab delimited text file that you can open with Excel) Here is the list alphabetically

    # Last Name First Name Pos Age 2012 Base 2012 Guaranteed
    19 Akpan Andre F 24 57,200.00 57,200.00
    28 Armstrong David M 20 44,100.00 53,564.29
    32 Cascio Tony M 22 44,000.00 77,750.00
    9 Casey Conor F 31 400,000.00 400,000.00
    23 Castrillon Jaime M 29 50,000.00 68,375.00
    31 Ceus Steward GK 25 44,100.00 44,100.00
    14 Cummings Omar F 30 81,999.96 95,999.96
    2 Freeman Hunter D 27 105,000.00 110,792.50
    13 Hill Kamani M 26 44,004.00 44,004.00
    17 Joyce Ian GK 25 44,004.00 44,004.00
    4 Larentowicz Jeff D 29 200,000.00 206,000.00
    34 Marshall Tyrone D 37 90,000.00 93,250.00
    25 Mastroeni Pablo M-D 36 240,000.00 245,000.00
    3 Moor Drew D 28 230,000.00 247,188.89
    11 Mullan Brian M 34 152,000.00 160,335.00
    5 Nane Joseph M 25 44,100.00 44,100.00
    36 O'Neill Shane M 19 44,004.00 55,504.00
    29 Palguta Scott D 30 63,670.00 63,670.00
    18 Pickens Matt GK 30 178,538.00 181,038.00
    10 Rivero Martin M 22 50,004.00 50,004.00
    37 Schmidt Luis Eduardo M-F 33 120,000.00 139,458.33
    20 Smith Jamie M 31 148,992.00 158,992.00
    12 Thomas Hendry M 27 ? ?
    15 Thompson Wells M 28 87,188.00 95,313.00
    8 Wahl Tyson D 28 65,000.00 86,086.67
    6 Wallace Anthony D-M 23 63,394.00 63,394.00
    22 Wynne Marvell D 26 250,000.00 326,666.67
    21 Zapata Luis D 32 65,460.00 69,043.33
     

    Attached Files:

  6. jdub3379

    jdub3379 Member

    Jan 2, 2010
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is probably the one that bothers me the most. Just as a comparison Chad Marshall makes $310k base salary (I think his total salary puts him in DP range, not sure), and Jamison Olave makes $250k base salary. Wynne's speed bails out the other CB's and himself for sure but I would rather have a CB who doesn't need to be quick because hes in the right spot at the right time and doesn't get himself into any trouble. I wonder if anyone on the coaching staff has flirted with the idea of trying Shane O'Neill back there? Thats a big kid who plays in a very deep position right now...
     
  7. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Denver CO
    O'Neill has about five MLS touches. I was following along wit hthe Olave comparison but the bottom of the boat fell off pretty quickly there.
     
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  8. Hunt998

    Hunt998 Member

    Feb 17, 2012
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    What are the odds that Connor Casey, at $400k, is still with the Rapids next year? Add in Pablo's $245k and there is going to be a lot of room for change in the offseason.
     
  9. COYP

    COYP Member

    Aug 5, 2010
    Denver
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depending on what we end up paying Thomas and what the structure of Rivero's loan is. MLS power rankings last week speculated that it may take DP money to secure him. I think his loan is 2 years but who knows how the financial compensation is structured. We easily could be paying him much more next year.
     
  10. jdub3379

    jdub3379 Member

    Jan 2, 2010
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was just a suggestion:rolleyes: . I would rather see O'Neill have a shot at it instead of seeing Palguta out there anytime soon. We had Armstrong as a forward when we originally signed him and now we got him training at RB. So I don't think its a stretch to give him a shot at one of the positions that we don't have a ton of depth or size.

    So yeah I would rather see Marshall (Chad) or Olave here, or any other CB with pedigree first and foremost, but its not crazy to suggest that O'Neill could change position from CDM to CB.
     
  11. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    Fort Collins, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm guessing Edu is gone as well at $120/140k. For a second I didn't think he was showing up on the Rapids roster on the website and got excited, but then I realized they had him listed as Edu instead of Luis Eduardo Schmidt like the union table did.
     
  12. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Denver CO
    Maybe not crazy but I'd have to admit that judging anything from the five touches I saw would be beyond my expertise.
     
  13. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Steve Kean you are not then.
     
  14. jdub3379

    jdub3379 Member

    Jan 2, 2010
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its not beyond my expertise, I'm a bigsoccer poster. We're all experts here.:p
     
    Stuart95 and jayd8888 repped this.
  15. Soaker888

    Soaker888 Member+

    Feb 21, 2012
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Are you saying Rivero is possibley DP material for securing him next year? Or are you referring to Thomas? I like Rivero and think he brings a lot but I can't see paying him *that* much. As Jason mentioned a few months ago in another thread, it's likely that the Rapids did not bring him here without some clear indication (written in the contract) that they could have him if they wanted him after the loan period. I also assume they did not get Thomas to play this year without the commitment from both he and KSE that they could pay for his presence past this season, and that he would continue to play. I agree that Thomas may take up much of the Casey and Pablo salary "freedom" (assuming that is the case in the near future), and an increased Rivero salary would only add to that.
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been told that their current deals both have Rivero and Thomas secured for next season (presumably if the team wants them). I don't know if, like Comminges last season, there are salary escalation clauses but I assume that the Rapids won't make the same mistake by having too much of an elevation clause on either of them.
     
  17. COYP

    COYP Member

    Aug 5, 2010
    Denver
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No I don't think Rivero would be DP material for next year. I'm just saying what I saw on MLS.com though. I do think the loan deal with Rivero is not clear cut and we all have no idea the true payment terms for next year. I agree that the Rapids have put something in place where they have the possibility of signing Rivero after the loan. Whether the Rapids can afford it or are willing to pay is another story.

    My main point is that the freed up salary cap for next year is most likely not nearly as big as it appears now.
     
  18. Soaker888

    Soaker888 Member+

    Feb 21, 2012
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Agreed.
     
  19. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    I saw the comment on mls.com about Rivero being a possible DP. I found it to be one of the dumbest comments this year. Rivero has had some decent games and shows the possibility he could be a good mid. First he needs to get and stay there and only then we can talk about how he makes the leap to DP.
     
    Jasonma repped this.
  20. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The whole mess to get him here also has me worried about his return next year, but we will have to wait and see.
     
  21. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again, when it happened I was told by the Rapids that the deal they worked out covered him through next year.
     
  22. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jason, we get what you said. But if I recall originally we said we signed him straight (club had not been paying him so he should of been FA), then it morphed to loan due to possible player transfer rights owned by 3rd party(s). I don't recall ever seeing proof on this but what if now they read about DP money and decide they deal is now void unless more major money is sent their way?

    Remember his transfer tix was never sent here but FIFA "awarded" or whatever the correct term is his rights to MLS/ Rapids.

    But, we have enough problems to start worrying seriously about this, I just wouldn't be surprised if something like this happens.
     
  23. dallasrapidsfan

    May 8, 2012
    Dallas
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Conner Casey will return? I think not. His time has past. Unless maybe he decided he want to get back in shape?
     
  24. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he will be back, but he must take under $300K.
     
  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Conor, and I think somebody is still bitter about Casey Conor being named MLS Cup MVP...
     
    Stuart95 repped this.

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