Should they stay or should they go (now)...

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by Soaker888, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. dismemberment

    dismemberment Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    release wallace sorry bro way to many injuries early ala Collin Clark .
    release akpan pagulata edu cesus there are many many cheaper goalies who are fantastic just waiting in ligue 2 ..... they have 75 % tax work rate in france. A 300 k contract out there still is nothing compared to the 30-90 k they could get coming here with a bigger opportunity for there career and gain a bigger name for them shelves. I like akpan but i think his more of a duo striker with him and edu gone thats another what? 200 k we could really really make a move for a target man like bogdan milic 6'7 decent pace play maker.... headers for days. always finds the end of the cross 24 years old.

    i want too keep nane. he has seem to gotten better and better each game he starts.

    i say bring in a right back also let freeman go

    release pag and marshall. theres a center back we could get to compete with moor and wynne. might be reaching high in a player named zakuani in npower leauge. but there is alot of talent the rapids and there scout staff overlook and see.



    this team could be amazing once we get the right pieces in the tiny spots thats screwing this team over.
     
  2. railwaystand

    railwaystand Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    The maximum tax rate on income, in France, on salary over 70K Euro ($88K) for a single person is 41%. That is without mortgage relief and deductions. the rate falls to 30% for couples and even further with children. Not quite 75%.
     
  3. COphysicsDave

    COphysicsDave Member

    Dec 13, 2010
    Centennial State
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to get political, but that was before they elected the new guy. It may be the same but I think he said he wanted to raise taxes. Just think that dismemberment has a point here; I know that Feilhaber coming back from Denmark was partially motivated by the fact that his tax rate was about to go up to 65% or something since he'd been in the country for 3 years. MLS could capitalize on that...
     
  4. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

    Jan 30, 2005
    Denver, CO
    Here's the best way I can put it: considering the RFO braintrust hand-picked Pareja, I assume they're all on speaking terms and working together toward a common goal. Unlike Smith last year, who was openly up in arms against that RFO braintrust. So when I bitch about Pareja, time is the only thing keeping me from writing out Pareja/Bravo/Hinchey every time; Pabravochey? I don't know, doesn't quite have the ring for me. They're all to blame somewhat, but I think I know just as little as, if not less than, other people here about whose call it was to sign player X, who's making the big picture ideas, who system is really being implemented, etc.

    Perhaps cynicism is overtaking me at this point, but I don't see what vision they're supposedly committing to. I don't see what past decisions they'd be holding to, because I don't see any clear line of thought connecting those decisions. "We're aiming to transition into a younger starting XI"? Sign a bunch of players who raise the average team age. "We want to play an attractive, attacking brand of soccer"? Play the same way we did under Gary Smith, just hold onto the ball more and do less with it. Sign just one new forward, who's too old to contribute; sign a tweener we never play. Throw public temper-tantrums when our current forwards can't finish - sign a defensive midfielder.

    If there is a vision, I just personally can't connect the dots. I see just marketing buzzwords of "attractive style," but I don't see what path they're choosing to make those more than just buzzwords. All I see is scattershot, which is why I said earlier if things go as bad as I expect them too, a very limited list of players should be considered safe, and I don't see any of the new acquisitions making that cut. Which will suck because I felt like, ugly as it was, at least last regime's team was assembled with a vision.
     
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  5. railwaystand

    railwaystand Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    It hasnt changed, yet, but, its France and they have been on vacation for 2 months so who knows what will happen now, I agree with the point, it is something to be considered for players in some salary ranges its just not as clear cut as was originally posted.
     
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You know, people might take you seriously if you actually knew what you were talking about. Besides the swing and a miss on the French tax rate, you can't get cheaper than Ceus, who's already making the league minimum. Not to mention the questionable idea of wasting one of our international slots on a backup keeper that never plays.
     
  7. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is little to no connection between their public statements and roster/ starter choices. My crystal ball is also on the fritz, so I am just hoping the original concept of playing "better" soccer is the truth ( to me anything would be better then a bunker system with a foosball offense we had)
     
  8. Dom. FC

    Dom. FC Member+

    May 10, 2004
    Central US
    Re. bold, eastern European would be a different accent (and probably harder-nosed football). ;>)

    Re. the rest, it is sad when realism seems like cynicism but that paragraph pretty much states facts. What I see is a bold and broad strategy that lacks the nuts and bolts tactics to implement it. Both on and off the pitch. To impose a different formation, style, and philosophy of play on an existing group of players won't work. Changing out most of the players would be required and it hasn't been done enough (to meet the strategy, w/o value judgement re. that strategy) or with enough quality. G.S. seemed to build a team that could win at the Championship level (U.K.) but that would go right back down the season after promotion to the Premier League. The new strategy seems to be more like swinging for the fence and trying to build a team that could win at the Championship level, succeed at the Premier level and play in the EU Champions League. And sure that sounds good but with a historically frugal approach to player acquisition on top of being in a salary capped league the reality is it probably can't be done. Or at least I'm not expecting to see a movie called Money Soccer Ball anytime soon with actors playing Bravo and Hinchey as they build a team that dominates the league using only money from aluminum can recycling, change from couch cushions at the Pepsi Center, and our soon to be received 'you suck' allocation.
     
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  9. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    Fort Collins, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is what is so frustrating. At the beginning of the season there were a couple of games where we looked terrible (NY, RSL gm 1, Sea gm 1) but at that time of the year we managed to be 7-8-1 and were competitive in all games except for the three mentioned. Except for RSL gm 2 I don't really remember a game where I felt like we were completely hopeless and out of it, but our luck has run dry and we've only gotten 4 points since then. If we put away a 1/4 of our missed quality chances in those games, I think we would be sitting here talking about how the backline personnel needs to be squared away and maybe trying to find guys that fit better in the system, but we aren't talking about blowing the whole thing up.
     
  10. 30Something

    30Something Member

    Jun 3, 2004
    5280 Feet
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great points. To me, it's always more frustrating to lose a game in the last 5-10 minutes, than to get smoked 4-0 from the opening whistle. It's one of the reasons I hate RSL so damn much. But it also means we're really not as far away as you might believe, or some on here would have you believe.

    For what it's worth - I'm here to talk about finding guys that better fit the system, not blowing the whole thing up. I prefer instant gratification, but understand its not always a reasonable expectation. :)
     
  11. Soaker888

    Soaker888 Member+

    Feb 21, 2012
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I think I disagree a bit with some points here, but generally just have a different take on the way the Rapids look during play given the stated goals of the RFO. I agree that it appears the Rapids are missing some "nuts and bolts" tactics when it comes to pulling off a new strategy. Varying the formations and the lack of similar starting XI (just to get started) leaves one wondering. But I can't help consider that the two main goals of the season don't always go hand in hand: implement a new overall game strategy; and win a bunch of games while you're at it. I am willing to give some more time. So, why can't you impose a new strategy and game style on existing players? They're not old dogs (most). Of course they can learn it, it just doesn't come as quickly as many would like. Besides, quite a few new players are around this year to help implement it, so it's not all the "old" Rapids. Swinging for the fence and playing in Championship league are good analogies, I kinda like 'em. But I think they are exagerrated. Implementing a new strategy of any kind could come accross as swinging for the fences when trying to get it all going (e.g., this season), and I expect some faltering....(but one *could* argue this second half of the season is more than "some faltering"). My take on the reality of their play is more along the lines of 30somthing. I see plenty of good play that fits with the strategy and system the RFO is trying to implement... passing, possession, creating chances. But pretty much everyone seems to agree that finishing those chances has been the main issue in losing many games and missing out on more ties. If they were finishing just a fraction more of those chances (without changing anything else about their play) and were posting more points in the standings, I think a lot of this analyisis of what is wrong with the team strategy implementation would not be happening (perhaps that's a "duh" statement).

    Couldn't agree more with the penny-pinching-owners opinion. That may ultimately keep us relegated to bottom-feeder status.
     
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  12. wormhole

    wormhole Member

    Mar 25, 2009
    Westminster, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Possession is there, but not pressing possession. The Rapids' slow-paced passing gives opposing teams ample opportunity to turtle up in front of goal and all but eliminate decent opportunities.
     
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  13. Soaker888

    Soaker888 Member+

    Feb 21, 2012
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I think that's a great point. I have seen just that plenty of times, and it's what helps get them their possession stats. But I have seen the possession ultimately lead to more penetration and game dominance than a simple tika-taka at half-field description of their play would indicate (the finishing has sucked). Ultimately, I don't know if the Rapids can successfully implement their chosen strategy well enough to be a winning team in the MLS. It may be too difficult given the physicality of the league, possible need for too many high-priced players, it may be too tough to continue to implement over time.... or just take too much time. I dunno. Even given my diatribe above, I ultimately just am willing to give OP and the new players more time to start showing some more consistent wins.
     
  14. 30Something

    30Something Member

    Jun 3, 2004
    5280 Feet
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I also agree with this, with one additional comment.

    The reason we are slow in the attack is because of this (IMO): In order to open up quick runs and passing lanes, you need to beat at least one person on the dribble. That results in a defender moving out of coverage to shut down the man with the ball, ultimately exposing space in the defense for other attackers to run into.

    We don't have anyone (well, we don't have many) who are either 1) willing, or 2) able to beat someone on the dribble, especially attacking the middle of the field. We DO have guys willing to take someone on 1v1 on the flanks, but that usually results in a cross (which is reminiscent of Gary's style).

    Also, aside from Casey, we don't have any strikers who put themselves in good positions off-the-ball.
     
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  15. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Other teams in MLS are able to play this style, question is do we have a guy(s) who can go find the talent/ players we need to do so. I think over 50% of the MLS teams play some form of the style that we wish to move too. I just don't think too many MLS teams are willing to trade the guys they have found and why we see so many C/ S American signings.
     
  16. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Slow in the attack is an issue.

    Not making runs off the ball, even where we have speed, is my A #1 issue - and has been for years. Possession, at least the kind imagined, requires movement, and I'm just not seeing very much of it. It's bad enough in the middle third but it's absolutely non-extant in the final 3rd.

    When there is movement there's a lot of what I think of as selfish-movement. It's the run that only makes sense as a move for that one player to make a play. Movement that supports another player, movement that creates a 3rd an unused 2nd or 3rd option, that stuff... doesn't happen.

    The other item the Rapids is missing is the player who can possess the ball deep. I'm thinking of the Jaime Moreno type forward who could hold the ball, make a pass, or score. At his peak Omar looked competent at it, but that always started with a run into space where Omar could compose himself and then find Casey. He doesn't seem to make those runs as well now.
     
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  17. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Spot has it right, I was just watching Barca v Madrid last night.

    Here is highlights for iniesta, biggest thing that stuck out for me is the pace on their passes.


     
  18. wormhole

    wormhole Member

    Mar 25, 2009
    Westminster, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. Very little follow-up too. You don't see this team continue (or even make) runs toward goal after a shot.

    There's very much a head to the ground type of mentality to this team. When a player (like Smith) moves to create space the 2nd and 3rd players don't react in tandem. Also, players with the ball are looking to a single spot on the pitch as soon as they get it. If nothing's there, they pass back.
     
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  19. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    I'm always memorized by their movement off the ball.
     
  20. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    Yup, that's why a change in style won't work with only half the team on the same page.

    Of course some finishing and fewer I got 'em you get 'em mistakes in the back and this transition would feel a lot different.
     
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  21. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me this is Casey, when he's healthy.
     
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  22. dismemberment

    dismemberment Member

    Dec 10, 2007
    colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    soccer players in france have a 75% tax it can be worked down but they always start it at 75. That's what the ibra hold up with psg was about:thumbsup:

    all i'm saying it's either the front office or lack of searching the known leagues for players who want opportunity and American citizenship. Allot of them would jump at a chance for better schooling for them shelves and there families. Allot of them also want a football career better then sitting and rotting on the bench in their current leagues.
     
  23. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cite?
     
  24. railwaystand

    railwaystand Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    Again incorrect, Francoise Hollande talked about a new tax level of 75% on incomes of over 1,000,000 Euros per year, ($1.21M) the tax would be for money earned over that 1,000,000 not on earnings below the 1,000,000 which is 41%. However, at the moment it is just talk.
     
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  25. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure if it's still true but most clubs cover the tax (housing and auto too) in a players compensation package when I worked over there in 90's. Meaning club paid for apartment, car and their taxes for "foreign" players back then, it might of been the law because I also got same deal, but tremendously lower salary...
     

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