Sheep Draft 2 - Main Thread

Wasn't he a sheep from one of the earliest rounds?

I remember Nice saying he had the only "sheep", but I know you had Helveg, and I think Munoz was one also for Kyle - in the sense he was chosen in the coach-player round, iirc.

 

Yes, that part really worried me throughout the draft. Luis Suarez was my coach pick(I recalled 3rd pick too) and I gave myself credit of drafting him at that difficult round. Many of my research said that he was advanced playmaker liked Mazzola, Ozil, Sneijder etc. I admitted that I always believed he was a creative trequartista until I drafted him. I studied more about him after I drafted him. I realized that he played a much deeper role behind Mazzola. Frankly speaking, I thought I could get away with him as trequartista because several pro writers listed him as one. He was very similiar with Xavi who could play in an advanced or deep position.

I also have question mark about Alberto Spencer's ability to play with his back against the goal. He was a good #9, but I was looking for a Luigi Riva. After Dor02 took a few out and out strikers, I thouight Riva was mine, but I never got the chance to draft him.

 

Why? Where do you disagree?

 

I've owned every one of the games for the past decade. I don't have a catalog of bad rating mistakes made by the game, but there have been many.

And, anyone who independently makes the ratings is not objective.

Even still, pointing to Sosa's rating as a sign of his ability is silly. He didn't even pick up a 90 in any category. There are guys on the game that get countless 95+ in several categories.

 

Case in point. Stats for Paul Scholes...

*Short passing accuracy is LESS THAN Long passing accuracy? Defies logic.
*Long passing speed is a 95 and faster than short pass speed? Defies logic.
*Shot power is higher than technique and accuracy? Scholes was not a power shooter. he was known for his clean strike and sharp accuracy.

Anything else I need to go on? Oh, he's listed as a CM/DM. He's clearly never been a defensive midfielder.

Aggression is a 73? That's a poor score. He was aggressive as an attacker and as a defender.

Now, all that is wrong, and we still haven't touched on the subject of how the categories in the video game relate to gameplay and not what they normally mean in real life.

PES Stats are horribly subjective and many times misleading.

 

Wow I'm shocked that you're still awake ... anyways.

These ratings have NOTHING in common with those made by the game designers (Konami?).
Getting +90 in any category is a rarity.

Discussing Sosa's ratings might be silly indeed so just take a look at the ranking of Ronaldo (96/97), a player we've both seen and tell why you think those were 'made by fanboys who love the player' (can't recall you exact wording, but it was something like this ) ?


Attack: 89
Defence: 36
Balance: 86
Stamina: 83
Top Speed: 93
Acceleration: 98
Response: 90
Agility: 93
Dribble Accuracy: 95
Dribble Speed: 98
Short Pass Accuracy: 76
Short Pass Speed: 81
Long Pass Accuracy: 71
Long Pass Speed: 76
Shot Accuracy: 89
Shot Power: 85
Shot Technique: 91
Free Kick Accuracy: 77
Curling: 83
Header: 79
Jump: 76
Technique: 95
Aggression: 90
Mentality/Tenacity: 71
Keeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 82

 

ASF rated my team third or fourth. He was probably the only person who really had a grasp or understanding of my tactics.

I found last year's thread and ManiacButcher didn't have a ranking as such but he did rate my team as one of his three favourites.

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20199779#post20199779

I think your ranking of Andreolo is fair. He played in a similar role to Luis Monti but he wasn't considered to be as good as him. If I had to get rid of either Andreolo or Capello, I'd get rid of Capello. Only played at the '74 World Cup, when Italy flopped. Not only that, other midfielders from the 60s and 70s like Rivera, Mazzola, De Sisti, Causio and Antognoni were higher rated, even Juliano, Benetti and Re Cecconi. Re Cecconi was a bit of a "what if" though and Benetti was more of a DM.

I haven't checked all of last year's teams but at least you had some of the best Italians in your team last year.

The Milan from 2000s comparison is fair one. They did rely a lot on Cafu and Serginho on width. Most Italian club sides do play in a 4-3-1-2 formation but most people would criticise Milan for their age and lack of pace, especially in midfield.

From this year's draft, I reckon the likes of Lato, Leonidas, Piola, Greaves, Lineker, Antognoni, Sivori, Rivera, Van Himst, Albert and Francescoli should have been considered. I think that nearly all of the best defenders were drafted. I didn't see Pat Jennings or Ricardo Zamora drafted in goal.

In fact, I'm a bit surprised that in the seven years that I've been on BS, I've only seen Antognoni drafted in the Italian Draft.

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=330406

 

My rankings:

1. Nicephoras - Campos is his weak point but the rest of the team is well-balanced. Zambrotta isn't the weak point that other posters make him out to be and I believe he would give more width on the right instead of just having Matthews there. Coluna and Tardelli are a great duo in the centre and he has a great duo in Romario and Ronaldo in attack

2. Peru FC - he has great players over the pitch but I believe that he is limiting Cabrini by just leaving him in defence. He does have Orsi on the left but Cabrini was more offensive than defensive. The team doesn't have any true defensive midfielders in my opinion but they will keep possession better than a majority of teams

3. Schwuppe - a bit surprised that he won because he doesn't have pure wingers and Facchetti isn't his best role. He was great defensively and played centrally late in his career but I feel that he is only at CB because Roberto Carlos could't defend to save his life. Despite not having classical wingers, he does have to full-backs who are great at going forward and in the middle, he has players who can create and score lots of goals. It wouldn't be easy to dispossess them.

4. Triton - One of the best midfield and attacks in the draft but the defence counts against him. I really like Kaltz but I really don't rate Evra. I don't know too much about Katalinski aside from the fact that he played for Yugoslavia at Euro 76. Maybe if Yugoslavia reached the Final instead of West Germany, I'd rate him higher

5. Karloski - a major improvement from last year. He had no players on the right side of his team but this time he has a balanced side. Lahm will be rated higher in a few years time. I should have logged-in when he took Eusebio though

6. Kyle P - his side is better than the sixth place that I gave it at the time. I should have placed it in the Top Three. He has the best backline in the draft and the best poacher. Munoz would be the weak link and maybe Keane and Donadoni to a very small extent. I still like Donadoni as a player and if one player had to be dropped from this time, it wouldn't be him. Probably not as great as comme rated him in his countdowns but still a fantastic winger

7. Excape Goat - I'm not sure if Franklin and Wright would fit-in well. They played in the same position but I suppose Wright could move closer to the midfield so he can help Pirlo and Cerezo when they need to win the ball back. Good to see Spencer drafted and he'll have great support in Figo and Best.

8. Twenty26Six - a balanced side but Giles is the weak point. I don't rate Karl-Heinz Forster as highly as other posters do and IMO, Gordillo is better suited to the LM or LW position. Gordillo at LB would make a better Plan B or Plan C than Plan A. Casillas is a very good goalie but I think that there a better goalies in the draft. The Brazilians and attacking duo carry the team

9. PDG1978 - the defence is the weakness in my book. Ninth seems pretty low fo this team, especially with his attacking weapons though. Clemence was a good goalie and was unfortunate not to play at a World Cup but there were better goalies drafted. I felt Pique has a long way to go to be rated amongst the greats but his CV is looking good so far. Nelinho and Brehme will be a threat from free-kicks and give good width. Nelinho will need to push forward more than Brehme because there isn't a natural right-winger. Drafting Cryuff and Van Basten was a great move. Jugovic isn't as great as other CMs but he played for my two favourite teams so he's still a good pick. He's more direct than the four players ahead of him. He had Dzajic in a more central role but I feel that he should stick to the wing. I suppose that it would be ideal under the assumption that Brehme is coming from defence to join the attack. I liked his second formation than his first formation. Laudrup would be out of position but the rest of the team would be in roles that suit them the best.

10. ManiacButcher - Pele carries the team. The team has a great attack but the defence leaves a question mark. Sosa and Gamarra suffer from a lack of recognition outside of South America. The Gamarra one is a mystery because he is so highly-rated by the South American poster on BS but outside of SA, little is known about him. Paraguayans are known for the great defences but particular defenders don't get praise like specific Italian defenders would. Zebec at left-back is interesting. He was versatile but I'd prefer him at centre-back or left-wing. I'm sure that he would still be a quality left-back though. I don't think the midfield is that strong even though Ocwirk is there. He was a great player and I like Seedorf but Pele would need to be in the midfield more than usual. It would be nice to think that he wouldn't need to drop too deep. It is one of those teams that has a nice attack but in terms of a defence and midfield, it could be stronger

11. Frasermc - a lot to like about this team but the margins are so fine about these drafts. It is one of the more balanced teams in the draft, there are quality players and it deserves better than 11th. Other teams were better. The defence is good but the full-backs could have been better even though Helveg was a "sheep" from my understanding. This team could have had a better ranking with better defenders and Charles as a forward. He was known to be a great CB but I like him in attack more than Cantona

12. Akoeber - I don't think that Posipal was that great and likewise with Szymaniak. Schuster was very good but he didn't live up to his potential, more so than Scifo, who made my team. Nilton Santos was a great pick though and teams will have trouble dealing with Blokhin and him. Blokhin and Shevchenko are the two best Ukrainian players ever and possibly the best ever to come from the former Soviet Union. He seemed to build the team around Germans, Hungarians and Ukrainians and even though it was good to get a few players of the same nationality, the quality of some players counts against him, especially the German ones. Schuster is still better than Posipal and Szymaniak but not as good as Helmut Rahn

13. nsa - his side looks like it will play more of a 4-1-5 than a 4-1-2-3 due to the nature of Ben Barek and Zico's game. They were creaters and goalscorers with a great pedigree (Zico more so) but nsa would have been better picking one of them or drafting different players so they could work better. Higuain would have been drafted to fill the criteria but he has had only one good season for Real and one good World Cup. I could have have kept Schillaci based on that. In that round where he picked Higuain, he could have drafted Jose Altafini, a player I drafted last year and nobody picked him this year. Jose Aguas would have been another option if he wanted a striker. I like Klinsi and Kempes but Mario isn't in a role that suits him. The defence is pretty good though with Nicol being a weak link. He cost Liverpool the English Division One title in 1989 and before that, missed a great chance in front of goal in the Scotland v Uruguay game at Mexico 86. Even if the Scots won, it would have been unlikely that they would have got into the second round but at least Nicol would get the credit for at least winning the game for the Scots and send that thuggish Uruguayan team home in the first round

14. Delroy Facey - maybe a 2-3-5 would have suited this team like Peru FC assumed. His team would still get torn to shreds but at least his players would be in roles that suited them better. He drafted too many attackers and for all the tactical schemes that were created, they wouldn't work against the competing teams. In possession, they would be great to watch but defensively, Schmeichel and Terry would get bombarded left, right and centre. Beckham and Barnes would struggle to drop back. He has many players I like but so many players wouldn't be playing at their best because not all of them are in roles that will bring the best out of them. Karloski improved this year so if Delroy Facey is in the draft next year hopefully he can still draft a team with a great attack but with some defensive stability

 

There's been interest shown in doing another straight All-Time Draft like back in 2006. I've posted a sign-up thread here https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1761742
If we get 10 or more entrants we'll go ahead. If anyone's interested can you let me know or sign-up by Sunday 26th June. Thanks. You'll probably be getting PM's too if you took part in the Sheep Draft.