I just thought I would post this in here where I could get some real feedback and see what you guys think being Eastern Euro fans and all. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,6903,1123137,00.html
"By the early 1990s, hardline nationalist and anti-government sentiment was so entrenched among supporters that battles with police before and after matches were weekly events. On 13 May 1990, Red Star travelled to Croatia to meet Dynamo Zagreb, in what would be the last game before the collapse of the old Yugoslav league and with it the state itself. In what have been described as the worst scenes of football hooliganism witnessed in Europe, thousands of Delije fought the Zagreb 'Bad Blue Boys' mob, as well as the local police. The game - a portent of the wars that followed - was abandoned after 10 minutes, but not before Zagreb's best player, Zvonimir Boban, who later joined AC Milan, kicked a policeman who was trying to prevent Croatian hooligans from attacking the Red Star end. After this, the fighting went on for more than an hour and the stadium was eventually set on fire." This is the only part I've read but it's enough for me to say that the text is full of half-information and lies. I really don't care about what they say about the Serbians but this part, that touches my country, is a good indicator that the text should be taken with a lot of reserve. Don't believe everything you read, especially when it comes to English journalists. P.S.Did you refer by "best Eastern European fans" to Serbains? May I ask why?
Well first off, this about Serbia not Eastern Europe. Serbian fans do not represent all of the Eastern European fans. It doesn't take a genius to understand that Delije and Grobari hate eachother. But that article blows it all out of proportion to the levels of making out that Belgrade has become Beirut at the height of Israel taskforces going to work.... The civil war in Yugoslavia is messy as hell to explain, and it involves religon, race, culture and poltics. Not football. The whole affair was boling over ever since the end of World War two and even more so when Tito died. Not because football fans hated eachother. It did increase the tensions but were not the root cause. I have read that article and it is badly written and totally inaccurate. Although the situation with the Delije and Partizan is far from being anything but ideal - it is not that bad. Whilst there is a massive far right movement (especially within Red Star - aka Arkan's team of choice), that is nothing more than hogwash, jazzed up to sell some copies. WRONG... It happened after the team's arrival from the Super Cup win. Not during a match as they made out. I would contest that they were more Pro-Serbian then Anti-Communist as well. The article focuses on an issue and makes a mockery of the whole bloody dissolution of Yugoslavia. That almost football is to blame for what happened, and that it stood side by side as the Tigers massacred little villages, approving of every action. What a joke. Arkan and the Tigers are nothing more but pure evil - I doubt every single Serbian supported what he did.
Rep for that. Exactly right. The local Milicja were on the side of the Serbs and started to attack the Croats but not the Serbs, even though they both sets of fans jumped on the pitch, Boban saw this blatantly and attacked the policeman for what he deemed was unfair treatment of Croat fans. The police were protecting the Serbs who actually started the provocation, indeed they allowed it to continue and boil over, but only moved when the Croatians went ape-s***t and invaded the pitch...
No, I really am interested and fascinated by Eastern Europe. My Dad does business with Eastern Europeans so I am interested to learn more about their culture and why they hate certain groups. To Hrvat, I don't recall saying that Serbians were the "best eastern euro" fans. If I did please show me where. Ganu, I am well aware that Serbia does not represent all of Eastern Europe and to prove that you could check on the WR forum and see the ******** storm I kicked up when Alex_1 put Romanians high on his list of hooligan fans. I am curious to know the real story so if any of you have the patience and time I am all ears.
As I said before, you have to understand the complexity of Yugoslavia, to fully understand it. Years and years of a country that brought together, Christians, Muslims, Orthodoxs, Croats, Slovenes, Serbs, Montenegrins, Bosnjaks etc, in one little tidy country causes its fair share of hatred. Football games between Dinamo Zagreb and Paritzan were perceived as Croats vs Serbs. In no way is this a mini-replication of how or why the war was started - merely just a social gathering that fortold people's highly strung emotions at the time. I am in no way in defence at what both parties did in that war - but that article tries to make a link between soccer violence and the rise of ethinc tensions in the then Yugoslavia. Yes it was a factor - but not as big as it made out. I thought it was badly researched and fairly ignorant about the other factors that contributed to the downfall of such a state. Jazzing up the misery of civil war to make football the common enemy and sole contributing evil http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-6407210-0780617?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...=books&field-keywords=Yugoslav War, 1991-1995 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...6/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-6407210-0780617 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...1/103-6407210-0780617?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-6407210-0780617?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...6/103-6407210-0780617?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance That should do ya....
I remember reading this article last summer and thinking it was funny. There's a lot of "poetic freedom" with part pertaining to 13/5. After Delije beat up several common spectators on south (visitor) end and all hell broke lose, they hid on upper end of south side while cops battled BBB and other Croatian groups. They were so far out of the action that when I lobed a flare from east side I couldn't reach them (tho I was just 16 so I couldn't throw very far either ) That was one of few times when I thought riot was totally justified. Serb dominated police just stood there and watched common people receiving boot parties on south side. Good thing I didn't burn to death since stadium was suposedly set on fire, where did that come from? I remember communist flag on fire heh I could scan some of photos I took of Delije hiding up there like mice LOL "In Croatia, one hooligan leader kidnapped a supporter of Hajduk Split and raped him with a broom handle over a period of two days." I'm guessing he picked part of Parangal story somewhere and made up the rest. Those whacky Serbs, allways up to no good
Yeah, my mistake, I don't know why I thought you said that. I tried to write sth smart on this subject for half an hour, but just couldn't do it. It's far too complex. I hope I'll manage to write sth that could give a brief and objective insight on the situation, if I do that I'll post it.
Yea Alex you still haven't answered my question from the thread involving the most classless fans u put Romania high on your list and are till yet to answer why.
Toon, this article was written on Jan 18 of 2004. Just curious to know how you came across this? The irony of this is that Arkan was killed by fellow Serbians.....so much for nationalism.
It was posted in a WR rivalries thread about classless fans. I was sticking up for Eastern Europe and an English guy had the audacity to throw it in.
For fucks sake, I didn't even remember posting in that thread. My opinion was geared towards select Eastern countries in general. Didn't remember if the spitting and chanting racial incidents took place in there in particular. Had no idea my views carried so much weight!
I was just interested to find out why you thought Romanians were so naughty. I found it interesting out of all of Eastern Europe you chose one of the best behaved groups to throw under the bus.
You may all find this hard to believe but our Serbian hooligan activity is not limited to Europe but is also in the suburbs of Sydney, Australia. The Sydney "Serbian" football team, Bonnyrigg White Eagles were involved in skirmishes last Sunday with members of the New South Wales constabulary and the Sydney Croatian Club, Sydney United(Mark Bosnich's first club). The violence and disruption caused has led to both clubs being banned from the NSW competition for the remainder of the season. What is irritating about it all is that these "supporters" only turn up when there is a chance to cause mayhem and take on their ancient Croatian enemies. The average match against a team not aligned to any ethnic community from the Balkans will see barely a 1000 people turn up/ If it happens again those clubs will be barred for good. Probably to the relief of Australian football because they just keep on giving the sport a black eye where "soccer" is the 4th most popular "football flavour".
You have to admit that we have great fans, especially Crvena Zvezda. Who thinks otherwise just check this out: http://www.oaza.co.yu/sport/delije/index.php?page_id=306&lang_id=1&id=88 http://www.oaza.co.yu/sport/delije/index.php?page_id=306&lang_id=1&id=39 http://www.oaza.co.yu/sport/delije/index.php?page_id=306&lang_id=1&id=162 and see for yourself what can be seen from those pictures. Story about hooligans and fighting between Delije and Grobari is coming to an end. Believe me. Things were much worse few years ago even if it doesn't seem so....Now there was a mess on the stadium because there were no police forces present(and it takes only 50 hoolingans from both sides to cause mess), but earlier there was fight everywhere except on the stadium, becase of hundreds of cops around the pitch.
Well, I think Delije are the best in whole Europe. I just wanted you to admit that we are great. That's enough for me. What do you think, which club has better fans than we do?
The HRABRO! thing is pretty impressing, but don't take it against me if I choose these: But as I said, never denied delije coreography being impressive. On the other hand, when you look at it there is not real point in discussing so subjective stuff as that.
You're absolutely right there, but I just have to post these images: Crvena Zvezda - Partizan Crvena Zvezda - Lazio
I couldn't found any quality videos or where camera was in the crowd(if you want to see those, you have to buy DVD ), but these are OK: Crvena Zvezda - Rozenborg '03 Crvena Zvezda - PSV '04 Crvena Zvezda - Odense '03 Partizan - Crvena Zvezda '04 1 Partizan - Crvena Zvezda '04 2
I'm sorry everybody for being so one sided but certainly how can you go up against us? I don't know if anyone has seen the choreography we had against Barcelona in the Cup Winners Cup when it was still in play in around 95 or 96. All four sides of the stadium were covered. Please someone give me a better example. And who can forget the 91 Bayern Munchen - Red Star Belgarde semifinal at Marakana? I certainly can't! All four sides were covered with flairs. Good post football addict.
