Section 109. Did it work?

its not very likely that "we love busch" would be said after wondos 3rd goal. more likely than not, it would be "you are my wondo, my wondolowski".

btw, that is also not a profane song.

Section 109 hasn't been ideal for both SGs, but both are trying to make the best of it. It's inevitible that tensions will periodically rise due to major differences in demographics, stance on corporate support, and more importantly, general philosophy on in-game support.

But it's not a stretch to conclude that FO's decision to place both SGs together has actually hurt the Casbah in terms of a loss of membership (or potential members) where a family-friendly environment is required.

FO have tried to correct their poor decision by offering incentives to Casbah, such as the new large banner, and now a stadium chant supported by PA and jumbotron.

It seems the ideal solution to Casbah's limited growth issues is to move the SG to the family section of 101 or behind the opposing goal, yet FO continue to say that they want to reserve that end for fans who want a quiet, relaxing experience. This is against the trend across MLS. FO needs to do something now, as evidence of the competing chants during the Houston match. It's my belief that the 2 SGs can coordinate better if they aren't next to each other creating tension.

Sidenote (discussed in this thread): Those that want to join in Ultras chants, but shy away from the few songs with profanity may replace offensive words with 'Smurf', examples: Smurf LA; Smurf on those smurftards below, etc. Though, most of the Ultras songs are PG.

Great idea--especially since some of the people want the "as clean" version compared to "as nasty" takes usually in place... or just fill in the words "bleep" or "blank" or some replacement... Otherwise the kids would have to wear headphones and just mimic!

But seriousness on here, speaking as a fan on this (I enjoy the fervor of both groups but right now the Ultras are the major force at Buck Shaw--compared to the Casbah at Spartan) there will be some people who will assimilate themselves into the Ultras but will want to say a "clean" version of the chants, others who will just stay because they love to be behind the goal and will just "go with whoever is at the helm", and there will be the ones who will want to branch off to another section because of the style of support (which seems to be the case--"full 90" or "freestyle stop-and-go").

The most feasible time for a split can occur is when the new stadium gets built. The FO thought was to put everyone together and to try and create an experience based on the Nordecke in Columbus or Section 8 in Chicago... if Buck Shaw was an enclosed stadium like Spartan it might be more feasible for a split (as seen in the stadium layouts of RBA in NY, LA, and Toronto). With the Casbah--it's been different since Guy left and most of the people have families.

The fan experience evolves as time goes but behind the goal is where the supporters have to be the loudest, intimidating to the opposing team, and the most passionate as seen in many of the stadiums--on that end it has to go the full 90 minutes--the true bleacher bums or 12th player here! I'd rather make the place like a den--make it hell for the visitors. Again, only speaking as a fan here but when it's said and done it will be the decision of the groups on which course to take with evolution being a factor.

I highly doubt that there will be two separate Quakes supporters sections in the new stadium.

I have to disagree that the main reason that the Casbah is not as strong as before is because Guy is no longer involved. It has nothing to do whatsoever with that. I actually take offense to that comment as I am one of the main leaders of the Casbah. The number one thing that is hurting us is that we are in the same section as the Ultras. I personally have nothing against them but we are just different. And after many many conversations with the FO and new leadership they have finally realized this. Everyone is looking at options for the next season and going into the future. I believe there will be a solution next year, as there is nothing to be done this year, and one in the new stadium.

We never had any problems when we were in different sections and actually coordinated many chants together to get the whole stadium going. And when the Ultras sat down for part of the first half the other game the Casbah kept the stadium and chants going.

If I did not believe the Casbah can and will start to grow again I would not put in all the work. We are now incorporated with the State of California as a club and also as a charity. We are going to be holding a big charity event coming up in the next few months. More details will be coming soon. If you want to help or have constructive comments send me an email at donald@sjcasbah.com. I am always willing to take into consideration helpful comments that people suggest, we are a work in progress so don't give up on us.

That's good news. When you say everyone is looking at options, does that include the Ultras, meaning have they been invited to the dialogue?

I think everyone is looking forward to those coordinated chants again. With both SGs separated, a stadium song might come into fruition.

Is there really no chance something can be done this year? 101 seems a bit empty at times, and FO definitely have power to shift some STHs a couple rows back.

Any "solution" in the new stadium that does not assume a Quakes supporters section in the Epicenter growing rapidly to perhaps double the size of the current Timbers Army is no solution whatsoever. In other words, the supporters section in the new stadium needs to be able to accomodate three thousand persons.

Once the new Epicenter (assuming it's more than an erector-set) opens, it will sell-out immediately and indefinitely, and everyone's favorite aspect of the new stadium will be those crazy supporters (just like in Portland and Seattle and Philly). Thousands will clamor to buy tickets in the supporters section; will there be room to accomodate them? If not, any buzz from the new stadium will quickly fizzle.

The Casbah are going to need lots of dedicated "seats" in the new stadium merely to be able to unveil the Big Ass Quakes flag. I'm guessing that, with the current size of the group, the Quakes will balk at setting aside seats sufficient even for that purpose (at least 200). The Casbah should also be concerned that they may not be allowed to stand or wave things which obstruct the view of the prawn sandwich brigades necessarily surrounding a small supporters section isolated from the Ultras.

Houston Dynamo tried to cap its single supporters section at 300 and is already regretting it even before the new venue has opened. I predict the Quakes and their supporters groups will regret any "solution" that does not both anticipate a dramatic growth in the number of supporters in the new stadium and also recognize the need to meaningfully segregate them from the rest of the crowd.

Doable if the two SGs have enough separation behind goal to do their own thing, as well as collaborate.

Very good post! I knew from the beginning that putting the two groups together won't be a good idea, since our style and ideology are so much different. However, when we are at separate ends we are going to work together better and get the whole stadium involved. We will be more than happy to help you guys stay in business and eventually grow as a group. Just let us know what you need. Until then, get ready for the 25th!

Smurf You!!!

You can smurf my smurfing smurf.
Translates: You can borrow my fishing pole.

Smurf your mother, big time.
Translates: Send flowers to your mother, big time.

So let me understand this...
the 1906 Ultras want the Casbah to be moved to 101....
The Casbah wants to be moved to 101....
the regular fans (not involved in either SG) want a SG in 101

and the FO is saying what ?

Once again FO, get your act together, lets have two ACTIVE SGs in the Buck Shaw, it will only means GOOD BUSINESS DECISION

Lets all focus on JUNE 25TH and get back to this afterwards. We have way too much to worry about as it is. I hate LA

Smurf L.A.

In general it seems like combined supporters sections have worked well for some teams like Columbus, but if you guys truly have different styles then you might be canceling each other out.

With the Ultras carrying the title of most hated in the league, are any fans going to want to sit near you all?

With your new ground and your market size I think you should be able to grow your supporters sections considerably, but in terms of comparisons with Portland, the standing-only Timbers Army section is roughly 3600 seats:

"On Monday, the Timbers reported that Timbers Army Season Tickets had sold out for the 2011 season. That means there’ll be no place to sit in eight full sections of the North End at PGE Park – not that the Army ever sits during a Timbers match anyway. The eight sections, which will spill over into upper-level sections as well, have room for roughly 3,600 fans."
http://timbersarmy.org/press-release-tast-soldout

So "double the size of the current Timbers Army" would be larger than a 7,000 person standing supporters section. If that's the number you expect to bring it in your new stadium, respect! Over a third, maybe close to half of your paid attendance would be standing chanting supporters!

Don't get our hopes up.

My prior post was predicated on a preseason report (cannot remember the source) that the Timbers Army section had been allocated 1500 "seats." You can see from my prior post that I considered "double" the Timbers Army to be a 3000-"seat" supporters section, which is what I think we in San Jose should plan to accomodate.

Glad to hear that Timbers Army was allowed a considerably larger section than previously reported.

Though I've long avoided a verbal battle with the Ultras, I believe that now is the time for truth. While I have not attended as many games as I did in the past for many years, I am an original member of the Casbah. I will concede that the Ultras have emerged as a reputable organization-- one that is both dedicated and well-organized-- while the Casbah has faltered. In my opinion, Dan is largely responsible for the Casbah's decline. Why? Because he ought not to have started another supporter group; he ought to have used his knowledge and experience to help strengthen the Casbah. Instead, Dan founded a new and entirely separate group and, in doing so, nearly destroyed the Casbah. I predicted from the beginning that the more vocal and fanatical style (characteristic of European soccer fans) of the Ultras would appeal to the emerging generation of Quakes fans. This is why I will not hesitate to admit that I was one of the individuals who reached out to the old FO, requesting that the Ultras not be allowed at Spartan as an established organized group. Due to the Ultras' low numbers back then, other Casbah members failed to take them seriously; their indifference is now coming back to haunt them.

Things have shifted significantly since then, and the Ultras have become a force--one of the best, if not the best, groups in MLS. Meanwhile, the Casbah has collapsed, arguably hitting rock bottom. Still, this unfortunate reality does not give Ultras' the license to ridicule the Casbah members who have clung on. I am not naive. I know many of you Ultras members-- I've even stood with you at a few away games-- and I am fully aware of what goes on in your group. You don't have four legs and four arms, and you are certainly not superior to the members of the Casbah. You are, however, fortunate enough to have a leader who grew up surrounded by one of the most zealous and passionate European supporter groups. Having the intelligence, experience, and knowledge that the majority of the supporter group leaders in MLS don't have (as they did not grow up in Europe), he knows how to organize you. He devotes an enormous amount of time to your group. He is the mastermind behind your chants and tifo, something we don't have at present, but more importantly, he has the skills to negotiate with the leadership of the club to get you guys whatever you may be in need of. I have little doubt that, were he the leader of the Casbah, we would have had bleachers at the other end and that we would enjoy an improved environment in which we might actually thrive. In addition, you have a small group of folks who work with Dan on your signs and banners and create the nice tifo you have. Their works further legitimizes the entire Ultras organization, but does not give all Ultras the right to bash the Casbah and bury them every chance they get. Unfortunately, your leader refuses to involve himself with the Casbah and help get them off the ground, thus limiting himself to the left side of 109. This kind of selfish decision-making baffles me.

Our current leaders have a difficult and complex mission: to rebuild that which has crumbled and attract new recruits at a time when the Ultras are overwhelmingly more popular. While in 109, it will be impossible for the Casbah to acquire new supporters; they cannot promote their own unqiue style while being drowned out by the Ultras. New fans looking to join a supporter group will undoubtedly choose the Ultras. The FO needs to recognize this injustice and relocate the Casbah to a place where they will be both free and comfortable. I trust the leaders of the Casbah, I have confidence in the current group members, and I believe in their creative skills and passion. There may not be many remaining members of the Casbah, but unlike the Ultras, they are united and don’t bash eachother at the corners as some of your guys do. The Casbah’s members are true and unwavering Quakes fans; even if the Quakes ceased to exist, they would not join another team as some of the Ultras have done. [personal attack deleted].

Realy? so your complain is what ? you tried to get rid off the Ultras in their beggining and you didn't succeed and now you want their help ? because if they wont help you they are selfish ?

Dear Sing4thequakes

While Dan has done a great job in starting and running the Ultras, he and the Ultras are not the primary reason that the Casbah is in decline. You may want to look at yourself in the mirror for the answer to that one.

Your opinion and this post is laughable at best and ridiculous at worst. How are the Ultras ridiculing the Casbah? The only thing we have against you guys is the multiple drums and offbeat drumming that you guys are known for; however, even that is getting better. Dan stands towards the left of the section out of respect for you guys; however, I'm sure he's more than willing to move more towards the center if the Casbah is more willing to work with us, the Ultras.

Also, I don't know where you're getting your information from that we are not united. We are more than just a SG, we are a family and our bond is strong with one other. Sure, since we're a big group, not everyone will agree on every single tiny aspect but for the most part, through thick and thin, we are unified. You can see that through our chants and Tifo's that we put on as well as when we decided to protest a match.
[reference to personal attack deleted]

Whatever the case for your rant and personal attack, the bottom line is that the Casbah are in decline because of their lack of organization. The Ultras have no problem with the Casbah whatsoever and we always say that our style and level of support isn't for everyone, so we believe very strongly that both groups need to exist. However, it is very clear that the Casbah need to be moved to another section or end of the stadium.

You personally wanted us gone and now you want our help? Hypocrite of the worst kind. Good luck!

I'm a dues paid member of both the Casbah and the 1906 Ultras (as well as Club Quake when they took dues) and am interested in seeing both supporters groups grow and thrive. (And, if you're truly in the know, you recognize that I have put my money where my mouth is.) I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the Casbah because without them I would never have become a Quakes fan.

And I think you're full of baloney.

First, both groups' leadership have expressly stated in front of the other's leadership and Quakes' management on several occasions that their respective interests are promoted by separating them in the stadium. There's no disagreement there. So, the Casbah should not have any axe to grind with the Ultras about the fact that the two groups are combined in Section 109.

More importantly, the Ultras are not to blame for the Casbah's difficulties since 2008.

The culprit, as I've said before, is the Casbah's own culture, which until very recently, did not emphasize any activity beyond merely showing up for games. The Ultras, by contrast, have emphasized organization and effort outside the stadium, including viewing parties, tifo parties, an active internet bulletin board and recruiting new members. (For example, a tifo display like the Ultras showed at the L.A. game took lots of money, time and logistics, whereas the Casbah need merely show up to unfurl the BAQF.) The Casbah are laissez faire, while the Ultras are totalitarian (and I use those terms non-politically and non-pejoratively).

Yes, Ultras capo Dan Margarit provides the essential leadership -- as I've said before, he's as important to the Quakes as a DP strker (because as the Ultras censorship protest proved there would be no atmosphere at Buck Shaw without him) --, but the Casbah's failings cannot be blamed on Margarit any more than they can of Guy Gayle's resignation of Casbah de facto leadership in 2007 because of his two baby girls. The blame for Casbah's current predicament resides with its membership, who were complacent on the team's return.

Lately, the Casbah appears to have developed religion, upgrading the website (a work in progress), ordering new merchandise (new scarves arrived last weekend), making flags, holding viewing parties, and issuing rumblings about road trips and charitable endeavors. The current Casbah leadership, to its credit, appears to be seeking to change the culture. They belatedly seem to realize that it requires real effort to run a supporters group, though I think they may still be naive about the actual effort involved.

If Casbah members are secretly absorbed with hating the Ultras, I think they're wasting precious energy.

Sorry, but given that Sing4thequakes just opened an account and with his first and only post has put up something to provoke a reaction, please do not feed the

Sing4thequakes' rant doesn't read like the work of a troll.

It's a thoughtful post, albeit a misguided one.

It's worth airing some of the simmering resentments so we can get beyond them.

I'm interested in seeing where a respectful dialogue will lead.

That sounds like a fairly accurate summary.