Ogbonna was not an option and his team was a Serie A team went to B then returned to A. Not a big deal. He is 24 and has not been called up since. Veratti was 19 when he got called up. Youth makes ALL the difference. If you think a 19 year old getting playing time in Championship or Serie B then getting a call up is the same as a 25 year old who has never been to the EPL you are fooling yourself. (ogbonna had played in the Serie A and proven himself)
You do realize Torino has been out of the Serie A for 3 yrs. until this season. Ogbonna was a backup in his only full season in Serie A. He played 15-20 times that season mostly off the bench. His Italy call ups were a result of his Serie B career. He was last called up for the Oct. qualifiers. Moot point and now onto the real discussion..... I know youth factors in. I well aware of that. But it's also not like Hines has played continually since he was 18 and is a 7 yr. vet that's banged around the lower leagues. Injuries have limited a good portion of his career. He's just now starting to hit his stride. Many defenders don't hit that stride until 25-27. No shame in that. I don't know if Hines is international caliber. But I do know he's played well, very well in some spurts, over the past year. He's proving himself and he might be worth a call up. That doesn't mean play; that means a callup where he can be evaluated. Look, we don't have the players or the depth to dismiss someone because they don't play in a Top 5 league on a Top 8 team. We aren't there yet. It will still be a long time until we do. So in the mean time quality players, regardless of age or if they play in Belgium, Denmark, Championship, Norway, etc. should be monitored. Some will earn caps and become regulars.
You know, it was only four years ago that Boro were considered a rather decent EPL team. So, FYI, Seb Hines has two EPL games under his belt and became an EPL first team member when he was 19.
They were not decent...honestly the things people come up with about 2008-2009. They were decent under Steve McClaren 6 freaking years ago when they were in UEFA and had some quality about them. they have been in championship the past three years and were supposed to be promoted but underachieved. seb made two substitutions in the EPL. If you consider that proving yourself ....my sweet jeebus. edgar castillo looking dreamweaver this kid is.
Whoa, who said Seb proved himself. I just said that Seb has played in the EPL which you should have fact checked yourself considering Boro has only recently descended. Your welcome. Don't get so riled up by the word decent. I suppose decent would not be best for 08-09 but they had managed to be in the EPL for well over a decade at that point so it's not totally inappropriate.
I wasnt going to count those two substitutions...sorry. Will never count them as being in the EPL. 15-20 appearances in Serie A. Will count those. Good enough even if the majority are subs. People are way overrating Seb Hines. If he gets on the squad fine but right now I dont see it. (just like people creamed themselves over whitbred)
Your original argument was that Seb is not at the level of 2010's Demerit, which is correct. It's also correct to say that in late 2012, only Cameron is playing consistently at a (marginally) bigger club. I expect a call up but then I've never seen him play. It may well be that Juergen has seen him and is not impressed. It does seem likely though that since he was a highly rated youngster he has a lot of tools that would be useful for us.
Highly rated is a little much. Stoke is annoying to me personally but it is what it is. nothing wrong with hoofing it. pulis finds a way to make it work. highly organized at least. I think Hines is being overrated. What tools does he have exactly? He may very well be called up. I would prefer omar gonzo to be called up honestly.
Well most improtant to me is he doesn't have the quickness of an 18 wheeler like Gonzo. From what I have seen he is quick and decent with the ball. He has height but Gonzo for sure is better in the air. Both traits that JK supposedly is looking for. To me having Hines and Gonzo available with Cameron and Boca is probably as good as it will get for 2014.
On the one hand, our primary options at CB this year have been 1) a 33 year old second division player, 2) a 30 year old in a relegation battle in the Danish Superliga, and 3) a guy who hasn't played CB for his club all season and may not be viewed as an option there going forward. On the other hand, Seb Hines doesn't appear to have ever been a regular starter for 2nd division Middlesbrough (someone correct me if I'm wrong there). He's old enough now that it's hard to get excited about a player like that.
Ugh, yes. We finally get our backs into an excellent situation and now the CBs are in disarray. But it is what it is.
Defenders are not suppose to be exciting they are suppose to be efficient. Johnson and Chandler are average defenders at best and are they are better utilized moving forward. To some degreee that scares me especially when you have Boca and Goodson to cover their vacated areas. We need stronger CB's who can quickly, efficiently, and comfortably move to the outside when Johnson and Chandler push forward. That's why I like Cameron in there and that's why Hines could get a look. In games I've watched, Hines is very mobile and can cover a variety of areas while not sacraficing his best attritube -- defending. I love the prospects of Johnson and Chandler on the outside but we must be aware of the risks and space it leaves.
He is a for sure starter when healthy I would like to facts but boro's website has not been updated for this season. You have to go through match reports.
I don't know. I usually think of a starter as someone who's started at least half his club's games or alternatively someone who has started more games than the other options at his position, and it doesn't appear that Hines has done either of those in any of his six seasons at the club, including this one . Maybe he was injured, but it looks like he was on the bench for the rest of those games. Again, I don't watch Middlesbrough at all, so I admit that I might be completely off base here. But that's just the impression I'm getting from looking at the numbers right now.
we are overrating him here. he could make a difference but i seriously doubt it as he is on the way to 25....he is just desperate for international play...
Omar Gonzalez is the droid you are seeking. Seriously, I would imagine he is the starter along with Cameron a lot sooner than most of us expect. It is the logical and obvious solution, and would have happened much sooner, save for JK's early lineup ignorance and Gonzo's knee. Starting Goodson against Honduras is a fast track to dropping all three points. With that said, JK and team are probably desperate enough that they need to take a look at all possible options, weight them carefully, and make a good decision. Hines should probably be in the discussion, as well as Whitbread, however, in the end, I don't see either of them making it. Besler, Okugo, Berry, and John are all worthy of a look too, and then there is Brooks. Don't forget Mr. Gooch. The long term future is bright, the short term is fairly dark, but JK can alleviate it all by getting serious with Gonzo in the January camp. My guess for the Honduras call up for CB's are Cameron, Gooch, Gonzo, and then someone else who JK has no intention of playing.
I think both Gonzalez and John would have been playing at least some were it not for injuries. They and Cameron were all about the same about 1.5 - 2 years ago but Gonzalez had a major injury and John has had several smaller ones. Both seem to get hurt or go try out in Europe right when they get called up. Adding in Besler surely between the four two starters can be found. Might be hectic early in the Hex but by Autumn should be sorted out.
Hardly talking trash. Just stating an opinion. I think Hines could be great for us. I'm just saying Gonzo, in my opinion is one of our CBs for the next six years or so and the other spot is wide open. Hines is better than Goodson, Ream etc... I actually believe that Hines would be a good addition to the USMNT. I'm not sure why you got the idea that I was talking trash because I didn't say anything negative about Hines ?
Mostly because you came into the thread and out of nowhere posted a short snippet about Gonzalez. Nobody had been talking about Gonzalez, and you didn't provide any segue about why you were bringing his name up. A short one liner about a player who wasn't being discussed in a thread not about that player.