Seb Hines

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by bshredder, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

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    So last week Middlesbrough central defender Seb Hines said he wants to use his one-time switch to play for the United States if invited to play by Jurgen Klinsmann

    NY Times artcle on Hines here

    The question is where does he fit? He certainly not a starter if the team is healthy because Gooch and Boca are still the first choice

    But consider this:

    - Hines is only 23. That makes him younger than every central defender in the US pool besides Omar Gonzalez who will be out for a long time.

    - Hines was hurt the first half of this season but is playing very well lately for Middlesbrough. The club is trying to extend him to a long term deal. He was a top prospect in England growing up but always seemed to get injured at the wrong time. He seems to be moving towards his potential now.

    So looking at the American central defending pool there are a lot of holes

    1) Onyewu - 29 - Sporting Lisbon - Nice club situation but Onyewu is hurt right now.

    2) Bocanegra - 32 - Rangers - the US captain plays for a club that has a lot of problems and in a league that also has a lot of problems.

    3) Whitbread - 28 - Norwich - Good player but pretty unreliable due to the frequency of his injuries.

    4) Goodson - 29 - Brondby - Good player and still consistent. Not a good year for the club

    5) Ream - 25 - Bolton - Still adjusting to the EPL with a club that is in a relegation battle. There has been some promise so far but he is not a clear/regular starter yet.

    6) Parkhurst -28 - Nordsjælland - Very good season for MP but he is playing 90% of the time at right back

    7) Gonzalez - 23 - LA Galaxy - He will be out for most of 2012. It will be important to see how he comes back from a serious injury.

    8) Cameron - 26 - Houston - Very good MLS player but is still waiting to be tested at international and club level.

    9) John - 25 - FC Dallas - looked good the first half of last year in MLS. Two transfers to England did not work out. Needs to have a good start to 2012 to try another move in the summer. Still does not have an international cap.

    10) Michael Orozco Fiscal - 26 - San Luis - Off and on playing time this year in Mexico and inconsistent USMNT performances in 2011.

    When you look at the ages of these playes and the clubs that they play for, Hines fits in nicely with the US pool. Middlesbrough is in a promotional hunt and Hines is pretty established with the club.

    Is he worth a callup for any of the upcoming friendlies in May?
    1 person likes this.


  2. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

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    Worth a call-up? Yes.

    Savior? Not sure.

    I watched him play in the FA Cup. He wasn't bad but he wasn't outstanding, either.

    Today, he wouldn't beat out Gooch, Goodson or Bocanegra. But, he has the advantage of being much younger than them. Plus, he's young enough that he can keep getting better.

    Definitely worth giving some looks to but don't pencil him into the starting lineup in Brazil just yet.
  3. CapeCodFutbol

    CapeCodFutbol Member

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    Although you have listed many CB candidates, I think the quality of the pool is quite shallow. Adding another potential candidate to the list, and a comparatively young one at that, is good. Why not call him in and kick the tires, with the knowledge that he is just providing a depth option at this point?
  4. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

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    You also left out George John, bshred. And hopefully Ike Opara can stay healthy for longer than 15 minutes and turn some heads too, but since he hasn't, I concede he really isn't in the conversation. However, the Hines thing couldn't hurt. I mean, relying on an aging Boca and a guy whose quickness has been decimated by injury isn't a good thing. And I personally don't rate Goodson .... but that's just me. The bottom line is that NONE of our guys, top to bottom, are so good that we can throw out reasonable prospects as worthless. Many said it after 2010 and it still holds true in my opinion: If we go into 2014 with significantly the same crop as we ended 2010, we're toast.


  5. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    In the NY Times!

    These switches seem to take time. If Hines to were file for a switch would it even go through by May?

    Also the promotion playoffs are in May.

    US coaches seem to be conservative with centerbacks. Arena stuck with Agoos in '02 and declined to call up Demerit in '06. Bradley declined to make Demerit a starter until injuries forced things and then in '10 made a not fully fit Gooch starter.

    Klinsmann seems to be less conservative thus far with his quickly dropping Orozco.
  6. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

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    I guess I sort of forgot him but he really doesn't change the equation.

    EDIT: I went back and added him.


    A one-time switch now takes about 3-4 weeks to go through. It's much faster than it used to be. Fabian Johnson's switch took about a month.

    I agree.

    I am not trying to suggest that he is a savior. He may turn out to be very good or he may not

    But I just think that when you look at where he is (ability, club situation, age)in relation to the other US central defenders, it seems like he could play a role with the US national team. He makes a strong case to be a backup right now to Gooch and Boca with the potential to contend for a starting spot in a few years.

    US soccer should probably get the process underway for him to switch. It's a thin position for the US team right now.
  7. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

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    Certainly, he could help and we have absolutely nothing to lose.

    Thanks for the article and the thread, Brian!
  8. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    I'll echo everyone else in saying that a 23 year-old regular CB in the Championship is a player who certainly wouldn't dilute our pool and could believably help us down the line.

    The thing is, I don't know that I'd call us "thin" at CB in a sense. I mean we're thin when it comes to "starting material" guys. In my mind, that's Onyewu and Bocanegra (and most likely Whitbread, who never seems to be healthy when we could use him). And then after that, we have any number of decent-to-good backups, most of whom were listed above. The thing is, the only one that I think distinguishes himself above that group, but not enough to get into that top 2 or 3 is Goodson, and as we all know, he's a useful but flawed player. Hines looks like for now he'd be another in this 6 or 8 player pile-up, for now at least.
  9. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    I think, as everyone else has stated, that he slides into that prospective group of relative young central defenders.


    Ream*, Gonzalez, John, Opara (kind of), Hines etc

    I don't think Whitbread and Goodson are really in that conversation for young players being 28 and 29. Cameron is kind of questionable in between the young prospects group and current depth at 26.

    So in that sense Hines makes perfect sense to give a look to. Frankly I don't think we have anything to lose. We call him in, he makes his switch and if he isn't good enough for us he would never have been good enough for England in which case he isn't bitter about using his one time switch to play for a team that never worked out.







    *Ream is 24 by the way. October, 1987 birthday.
  10. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

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    Isn't that all that counts?

    Because if you are starting your backups, you're thin!
  11. swedust

    swedust Member

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    Exactly.
  12. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    Yes, but he doesn't really jump right out as a guy who would likely own on of those two spots in short order, does he? At least not much more likely than any of those guys from about #4-10 on bshredder's chart. He'd probably be one more of a whole bunch of those guys that we have.

    But he's 23 and he's consistently playing first team soccer.
  13. WJMarx

    WJMarx BigSoccer Supporter

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    In one sentence you have crystallized the issue for Hines and all other multiple passport "Americans". With few exceptions, there are few if any German/American players, Mexican/American players, American/Mexican players, etc. who would be choosing to play for the USA if other options truly existed or existed at the time of their switch. If they fail with the USMNT they have lost nothing!
  14. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    Germans yes, Mexicans I'm not so sure. I doubt Jose Torres or Edgar Castillo start for Mexico, if that's who you are referring to, players who've filed switches (although Torres didn't). If you are referring to youth players like Luis Gil, Alejandro Guido etc I think they certainly had options, they just chose us which means ....

    I don't agree with that for most of our Mexican heritage players.

    The Germans I tend to think would likely be more the case of what you are talking about. The difference of course is that guys like Chandler, Johnson etc were born and raised in Germany, whereas players like Torres or Gil were born and raised in the US.
  15. aarond23

    aarond23 Member

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    The more bodies the better I say. Who knows where Hines will fit in, but with some solid healthy play he could be a nice piece to have on hand.
  16. nowherenova

    nowherenova Member

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    Our nation was founded on people who were cast- offs from other countries. Why should our Nats not have at least a few of these poor souls? :)
    sXeWesley repped this.
  17. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

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    More options = better. Pretty simple that- we should welcome him with open arms, especially an established starter at 23. There's a lot of room to improve. I fail to see the downside for the USA here.
  18. Bunbury2Agudelo

    Bunbury2Agudelo Member

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    I agree, Seb seems like hes a solid kid and nice CB. Bringing him to a camp doesn't hurt us one bit.
  19. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

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    After watching the U23s, I think any young central defending prospect is a good thing

    That being said, Seb Hines was knocked out in the first half of today's game against Ipswich. A few minutes later he got up and continued playing.

    Toughness.

    [EDIT] He continued playing the rest of the half but was subbed out at HT
  20. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    Not to be rude to you bshredder but that's a terrible idea.

    If he was knocked out he suffered a concussion and a brain injury. By continuing to play he risked being able to play soccer, let alone for us every again. I hope Middelsbrough take precaution with him.
  21. kickingdead

    kickingdead Member

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    I agree with what most people have said about being worth a call up because it could not hurt us to add another young player with potential.

    As for the mentioning of Gonzalez, I do think he is a good player that should get more than just a January call, but unfortunately I am not so sure Klinsmann thinks so at this point. Once he is back to being healthy and playing again I hope Klinsmann thinks he is worthy.
  22. NatsTeamFan

    NatsTeamFan Member

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    It may have been a dumb idea, but that doesn't take away from his point.
  23. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

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    I am not saying it's a smart idea for him to do that. Middlesbrough should have taken him off ASAP. Concussions are serious (if that is what it is). Even the risk that it is a concussion is enough for high caution.

    But what is admirable is his desire to fight for his team through adversity. That says a lot about him.

    That is why this week you see articles out on Seb Hines

    Tony Mowbray praises Academy starlet Seb Hines

    And this article

    SEB HINES LOOKING SET TO COMMIT TO BORO

  24. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    I suppose so, but I just wish people would start to realize that playing through head injuries isn't tough.


    Anyway, sorry to bring this rant up.

    I hope Klinsmann grabs Hines




    MAKE THE CALL JURGI!
  25. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti BigSoccer Supporter

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    I highly doubt Klinsmann knows much about this kid.

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