Rumor: Scouting for European Downings - The Summer Transfer thread

Erm... IMHO historically over the past year and a bit it has certainly felt like they have no plan.... not complaining about the lack of gossip, it only bothers me in a soap opera kind of way, I am actually OK with the silence but it doesn't mean they have a plan; as was posted before, I guess I don't care until someone is waving a scarf at Anfield. Heck they can't even get the stadium sorted and that was 'their number one priority'.

I have started to wonder this week about who is leaving, might have a bit of a quiet summer and a mad winter transfer.

 

I too am skeptical about the owners and their intentions but as of now I am keeping positive and optimistic. I think over the course of the next 2 years we'll see what these new owners are made of.

Personally I am of the school of thought (and I have expressed this several times) that we need to spend and spend big this summer. Put together a strong team in the mold that the coach wants to play by. Once that is done then they can calm down with the spending and be patient.

 

big spending ain't gonna happen. we've already been told that, after a fashion.

as to owners have/don't have a plan...they are the owners. they hire people to have plans. they decided that BR is a man who can manage a team. he managed Swansea reasonably well. with better resources he ought to do well at Anfield.

now, we all want Messi but not C Ronaldo. we wanted Affelay for a while, but maybe not anymore. can we not see that the situation is very fluid right now? as has been said, there is a list, perhaps in somebody's pocket, of players who are thought to be the best-for-the-money additions to the team. we can only hope that LFC will be shed of the worthless gits that were purchased last year, chief of whom came from Villa...for 20M porkchops.

 

You and I have been over this I think already. Yes, I am well aware of the unwillingness of the owners to spend and my point is that's a mistake. Plain and simple.

This whole best-for-the-money crap is what exactly? It's just a euphemism for "the owners are unwilling to make a statement of intent in the transfer market so we'll have to settle for players of lower quality or gamble on youngsters in hope that they will peak well in 5 years time". This is a football club and there are two things in football, the best (not the-best-for-the-money) which wins the title and the rest. Anything else is just vacuous chit chat.

So the best for Liverpool FC will be any player that will contribute to us winning the title and ensuring a CL spot and make us a constant contender year in and year out. You have to start from somewhere and my approach is, start strong and start big.

 

perhaps in some circles -- and i can think of George Steinbrenner and Paul Allen as good examples -- a sports franchise is a toy. but i don't think that's true of John Henry's perspective about LFC. i think it's a bit "fanatic" of us to think that NESG should spend money according to the fans' expectations. that might have been the case in the past, but i don't think it's true in this case, sorry to say.

you might not like "moneyball", but it's a valid method of putting together a team, maybe more in baseball than football, but that remains to be seen.

obviously, last season's acquisitions have left most of us grimly disappointed, but that wasn't something that could have been determined with crystal clarity. "best-for-the-money" is one of the ways business risk management deals with this kind of venture. you can call it vacuous chit-chat to discuss anything but splash the cash, but it ain't our cash...

 

Exactly. This is a business concept that I believe is very unbecoming as an approach to a club with the prestige of Liverpool. I'm not saying throw sensible accounting out the door and bankrupt the club but at least make a statement of intent at the start. Show the world and footballers that the club is aiming high. That will most likely both attract new talent and retain current one. I think doing that in the beginning, especially with a newly appointed manager, might even save us money in the long-run. A good start is half the battle.

And yes, it's not my money obviously to spend. But had it been my money that would have been my approach.

Last season we overspent money on mediocre talent. 20 mil for downing when chelski landed mata for that much and united young for even less. 35 mil for carroll could have well well been 35 mil for cavani. I think I mentioned this before a few pages back... 1 world class winger, one world class forward/attacking mid a solid defender and solid midfielder. About 50-70 mil or so should cut it.

 

i'm sure you're a smart guy. you write with intelligence and depth.

but that statement is nonsense. i doubt very seriously that you have ever had to make the decision to spend millions of dollars on "talent". it's way too easy to spend someone else's money and similarly to say that you would have done with their money what they didn't do.

 

Unfortunately I do not know how to use the multiquote option but anything in " " is Blanconi.

"Personally I am of the school of thought (and I have expressed this several times) that we need to spend and spend big this summer. Put together a strong team in the mold that the coach wants to play by. Once that is done then they can calm down with the spending and be patient."
We tried this, we spent big in Jan last year and then messed up in the summer. I can see the reluctance to spend big when those that are football minds in the club cannot differentiate the Downings from the Youngs.

"Yes, I am well aware of the unwillingness of the owners to spend and my point is that's a mistake. Plain and simple."
They have the financial muscle to attract top talent and pay them reasonable wages, but once again who advices them on the players to buy? Players nowadays would rarely chooses historical achievements as compared to current success, as they are in it for a quick buck and quick success due to their relatively short career spans.

"And yes, it's not my money obviously to spend. But had it been my money that would have been my approach."
I would never take this approach. They did pay quite a lot of money to acquire Suarez, Carroll, Downing, Adam and Enrique combined. They inherited a squad where Cole and Aquilani are paid wages while not playing for LFC. They also have a stadium to finance. They need to be wise. They made mistakes previously by going British on the purchases. No one would have seen it going wrong, but it did.

I honestly think John Henry will be happy to sign on any player but at the moment he needs the scouting team/BR to unearth players who are worthy of LFC. We will never be able to compete with Chelsea, United, or City by paying big. We need to be extremely clever about our purchases we just cannot afford to buy player at crazy prices, pay them ridiculous wages and then offer them promises we cannot keep.

CL is the minimum for this club. We either pull a Newcastle 2011-12 by shrewd business or we spend big take big risks and wait.

 

Rodgers reported today that he wants to keep Suarez and sign him to an extension oh, and bring in 3-4 players but that getting players that will make us better isn't easy

 

1. It's a business concept - and you should expect JH to run it as a business, and not like a Russian oligarch or an Arab billionaire. I read that ManCity lost something like 150M last year to buy a championship. Personally, I think Americans are daft to think that they can run a PL club like one of our sports franchises. It's a completely different arena, but egos get in the way of common sense, I guess.

And it could be argued that they attempted to 'show the world' and 'make a statement of intent' by splashing the cash they did last year - and it didn't work. Unfortunately, KD didn't have the talent spotting acumen of Benitez. So now you want them pile a mountain of cash at Rodgers feet - once bitten, twice shy my friend. I expect their approach to be more careful this time around.

 

It won't be easy, and that is why the names that we're allegedly linked to feel me with unease. It is , I think, a genuinely difficult task.

Benitez did that admirably over a three year period, despite the constraints. I think he lost his way when he though Barry was better than Alonso and it all unravelled pretty quickly from then, as he fought the owners and took his eye off the ball with his purchases and sales. Same with Houlier. Kenny missed the trick with his additions, and we ended lower than we had been the previous year despite that awful, Hodgson-insstigated start.

Hodgson didn't just have a clue.

 

Usual sh!t stirring from the English press, fresh from trying to convince us that Hodgson didn't do so badly and that Spain were boring

 

Suarez was linked to Juventus, again. He's going nowhere.
3-4 players sounds about right. A lb as cover. A third option up front. 2 players in the midfield.

 

Roundup for the day:
Juventus to pursue Suarez, yada yada yada.

We're going to pick up Ba for the basement price of 7m before the clause expires July 31st. Thought we should have signed him for free last year, but 7m is still a good price to pay. We'd be fearsome up front, that is for sure.

Talk of us going after Steven Davis on a free from The Club Formerly Known as Rangers.

 

Here is Rodgers's quote from the Telegraph which LB referred to. It makes me feel that much better.

 

The same could be asked of the moneyball tactic or an extremely cheap transfer policy. That is not an argument and if it were used as one it would fall pray to a tu quoque response.

Two great choices would be Cavani and Lavezzi up front. Reus is another player I would have liked for Liverpool just off the top of my head. As far as their willingness to come here it would be contingent on how we strategically brand the club. And spare me all the negativity about them not wanting to come here. Unless you're their cousin and they told you about it of course...

 

I have not spent millions on talent, that much is true. Unfortunately I am not a millionaire (yet ) and I see why you would be skeptical of my statement. But my statement is nonsense in as much as I place a high value on money in it and of itself, which I do not.

 

It is important to understand that "moneyball" or "best-for-the-money" does not equate to buying cheap. Simply put, it emphasizes seeking the greatest return on value for each pound you depart with. It also emphasizes avoiding traits that distort the value of a player in the market. I hope this means our policy of buying British is through. One Stewart Downing is enough. While the term moneyball was never used, Rafa was employing the same tactic when he pursued the Spanish contingent. He recognized that they were undervalued relative to their British counterparts.

I wish we could come up with a new term for the strategy. Moneyball seems to quickly get many people's blood boiling.

 

the difference with the moneyball tactic is that you haven't spent 50M with no return. that's been tried...last season.

i don't know whether Cavani would come to the cold and desolate seaside desert that is Formby, but it would cost as much as Liverpool is prepared to spend this summer.

 

How is that pertinent to what I am saying though? Just because Kenny's transfer policies bombed that doesn't necessarily mean that other transfers will bomb. It just doesn't follow.

We wasted money on downing, adam and overpaid on carroll (although I am not resigned on him yet as he could end up being much better than he was last season). But just because that failed that doesn't mean we have to stop being active in the market. Like I mentioned earlier, chelski got mata for as much as we got downing and there is a significant talent gap between the two.

When I say spend big I don't mean unload your bank account into the market and throw money at whatever for the sake of spending. When I say spend big I mean, not to hesitate to pay big money for players that are world class. I mean do not limit your choices to only "potential young talent". I mean not to go after second rate players simply because of price differences. And along with the 2-3 big buys will obviously be some smaller ones as well. I hope I am not misunderstood here 'cause sometimes I get the feeling that people I am.

 

Well you'll always going to have the disadvantage compared to Mediterranean climates.

Yeah, but how much we spend this summer is what I am contesting actually. Isn't that the point of the discussion?

I was very impressed with both of them, and how they played together last year at Napoli, so I like them both individually as well as a synergy unit. Getting them both might knock the price down a bit too. Just for the sake of it, think of our front line with Lavezzi, Suarez and Cavani. That would be terror to other teams. With Gerrard and Lucas anchoring the midfield + hendo(?) and our solid back 3 + enrique or a new LB and I think we're definitely going to have a promising and exciting team that can be in top 4 contention. That would be my guess.

Ok, that's my contribution to this for now. Happy 4th of July everybody see you in a few days!

 

let's back up a bit...

what if Liverpool can only spend 30M, net, this summer. Kuijt out is 1M, Cole, 2M, Rodriguez, 2M, Brad Jones 500K , Downing 2.5M...that is Ba's buy, if that's the direction. now there's still 30M. Cavani is listed in transfermarkt.co.uk as 31M.

that's 2 players and it's a wrap. if not Ba, but Cavani, there's still only 8M.

how's that?