Scottish independence

Discussion in 'International News' started by The Biscuitman, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    They could have, but Cameron would have likely called a snap election in late 2010 and won a majority. Had fixed term parliaments been in place before the last election then they would have had far greater influence through confidence and supply, but without it it would have been a guaranteed Tory government within six months.
     
  2. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I doubt the Tories would let the LD control them by the balls like that. This coalition is like the "special relationship" one sides gives and the other side receives everything it wants.
     
  3. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The yes vote is still significantly behind. Seems like the SNP will get a lot of egg on their face with a loss.
     
  4. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Indeed!

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics...land-join-micronationalists-independence-vote

    I'm liking the thinking here. I live in a house which has an odd number and there's no WAY I'm letting those bastards in the even numbered houses on the other side of the street get the benefit of my local tax money... lazy, workshy scroungers that they are :mad:

    :)
     
  5. The Biscuitman

    The Biscuitman Member+

    Jul 4, 2007
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Salmond strikes me as a man who loves egg on his face. he would mop it up with bread and butter
     
  6. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What do you attribute their rise to a protest vote, anger against the "liblabcon" establishment, wanting out of Europe, anger over immigration, or the Tories moving to the left. Seems like UKIP can get double digits next year they are sucking a lot of votes from labour working class white base who is angered there party as moved to the right and left them behind.
     
  7. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    They're getting far more ex Conservative voters. On the latest polling, UKIP have 14% of those who voted Tory in 2010, 9% who voted Lib Dem and only 5% from Labour.
     
  8. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    Also, the Tories are not moving to the left. Anyone who thinks that is as delusional as Farage.
     
  9. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Lax on immigration ,very europhile, supporting gay marriage wouldn't you call that moving to the left. Many on the Tory right have said that Cameron is moving their party to the left are they lying? Cameron's goal was to modernize the party and make the Tories an acceptable alternative again after 3 general election landslide defeats. Party leaders like IDS, Hague and Howard took the party too far to the right so cameron is bringing it back to the center hence he is moving leftward.
     
  10. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Do you think they will come back home to the Tories before the general election.
     
  11. The Biscuitman

    The Biscuitman Member+

    Jul 4, 2007
    Club:
    Reading FC
    opinion poll numbers have been proven to be quite a way off of actual voting numbers when it comes to election time.

    people love to stamp their feet about things but when it comes to putting that X on a bit of paper they so often stick with what they know

    'I agree with Nick' being just a recent example of this
     
  12. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    They're not 'lax' on immigration. They just can't do anything about the bulk of it because of EU rules.
    There are as more right-wingers that are europhile then left-wingers.
    In a sense but, tbh, it's just a populist measure to appeal to younger voters and it doesn't cost anything.
    Tories lying? I'm shocked... shocked I tell you! :eek: :giggle:

    Anyway, they're either lying or, more to the point, they're simply idiots or have no idea just how much of a bunch of right-wing nutcases their party has become.
    They've carried out policies that even THATCHER, in her most 'foam-mouthed' moments would dare to do. They're, if anything, more RIGHT-WING then she was.

    It's just that some of the tories have totally lost the plot on things like Europe, taxation and welfare, pretty much the same as the GOP has in America, (except the Europe bit, obviously :D).
     
  13. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    They've been a lot more accurate in recent years, notably 2004/05. The last election was a bit different with Clegg's surging popularity, but they were still reasonably accurate this far out. Once you get past conference season they tend to be pretty good guidelines.

    Methodologies changed significantly in the wake of the 92 election. Headline figures from Populus now only include those certain to vote, and ICM assign Don't Knows to whoever they voted for previously (which is why they normally have the Lib Dems higher than others).
     
  14. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    As NM mentioned, they have no choice on EEA migration.

    The Tories have always been deeply split on Europe. Most of their funding comes from businesses who are very pro-EU.

    Fewer than half of Tory MPs voted for it. Policies such as this are used as a mask for their economic, education, health and social security policies being more right wing than even IDS or Howard promised.

    No. They just can't see the bigger picture. They get all foaming at the mouth at anything like gay marriage and this stops them seeing the clear corporate agenda behind their main policies.

    He succeeded in changing many people's perception of the Tories without actually changing their core goals. His populist measures prior to 2010 feature nowhere in their current plans. Look at how he put forward all his green credentials only to ditch them after the election.

    Hague had no choice. Blair had Labour camped firmly in the centre so they had to move. His biggest mistake was running for the leadership when they never had a hope of winning in 2001. They would have been better served inflicting IDS on the party before Hague could be seen as the moderniser. He would have likely won a majority in 2010 and quite possibly also in 2005 (where Blair was clearly vulnerable). He is a far better orator than anyone else on the Tories front bench as he can respond on the fly and divert from script.
    Cameron is about PR, and set about changing the perception of the Tories without changing their core values. There has been no leftward shift other than on largely insignificant issues (in the grand scheme of things) while they drive the poor and disabled to despair (and sometimes even suicide), sell off anything not bolted down and try to dismantle their biggest bugbear in the NHS.
     
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  15. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
  16. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Latest poll
    29% yes
    41% no
    30% undecided.


    No vote is doomed.
     
  17. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
     
  18. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ???

    What's that, like a multiple-choice post, we choose which one we want to discuss??? :cautious:
     
  19. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I made a mistake lol I meant the yes vote is doomed.
     
    Naughtius Maximus repped this.
  20. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Ah, right.... ;)

    I still think it's too early to say, tbh, but, yeah... I think the most likely thing is a narrow no vote with Salmond using any strong showing for the yes campaign to argue for increased powers for the Scottish parliament. The only thing is, if they've just voted 'no', then what does the rest of the UK get in return?
     
  21. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Chesco United repped this.
  22. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    When will England call for a separate parliament for England? Is there any rumblings within England for going it alone.....
     
  23. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
  24. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

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