In my mind, the foul happens right here. This is right before Lenhart sticks his hand on Olave's shorts, and a stride before Lenhart kicks his left leg out towards Olave. Olave's shoulder has clearly already make contact with Lenharts back. This contact is what causes Lenhart to fall, then grab Olave's shorts and kick out his left leg in a desperate attempt to maintain his balance.
What that screen shot doesn't show is that Lenhart is leaning pretty hard to his left and reaching across Olave. Olave's feet are underneath his torso. Lenharts feet aren't. Pause the MLS highlight of the incident around 49 seconds and you clearly see Lenhart leaning hard and reaching across Olave whose upper body is mostly straight up. Lenhart tries to insert himself in front of Olave where there is no room to do so. Which causes the clash of bodies.
Unless anyone in here has any professional games, this doesn't really happen in my high school games or youth. The celebrations are had while running back, and we get on with it.
Lenhart has the superior position though, being in front of Olave. Olave has no right to the space he is trying to take with his shoulder. And in watching, you can see Olave lower is right shoulder into Lenharts back. Im starting to come around to the view that it was a foul on Olave. The shorts grab was a distraction, and while lenhart did move to shield the ball and create the contact, having superior positioning it is not his responsibility to yield, but Olave's, who does quite the opposite.
It's a pro game, involving players making 5 to 6 figures, where a goal is one of maybe 50 they will have all year, coaches whose livelihoods are on the line. It's not a bunch of kids who be playing Xbox 30 minutes after the final whistle and figuring out who they're going to prom with. It's not a coach who will go back to his job selling insurance the next day. It's not a youth match, scheduled for 5 PM with a second to follow at 7 PM. They added 6 minutes to this game when there was at least 8 they could have added. Lose the cobalt-shaded eyeglasses and get over yourself.
This is the thing. Lenhart's torso was in front of Olave. This is all that matters. I think for once, both of these physical (and occasionally thuggish) players went into the challenge with good intentions. Olave was trying to subtly nudge Lenhart off the ball, while Lenhart was trying to use his body to shield the ball at high speed. By sheer coincidence, the moment Olave's shoulder makes contact with Lenhart's back, Lenhart is extremely off balance. Because the contact was shoulder-to-back and it causes Lenhart to tumble, its a foul.
If Lenhart leaned into and grabbed Olave in order to impede his progress, would that not be a foul on Lenhart? I guess if he could play the ball that would be considered okay for Lehnhart, but then isn't Olave allowed to charge at that point? Note: Not trying to open a can of worms, just trying to understand the rule here.
The ONLY reason Lenhart's torso can be considered in front of Olave is because he leans forward and across Olave and grabs his shorts. Lenhart falls because he kicks the back of Olave's leg and because he is already leaning so far forward and to the side his feet are no longer in front of him and he can't place his leg in a spot to keep himself up. Not because of Olave's shoulder. I can be running even with you but half a yard away and then sort of lunge and reach across you then all the sudden my torso is in front of you and we are right next to each other. That doesn't mean you had a better position than me. You can't just desperately insert yourself in front of someone where there is no room to do so.
IMO, they weren't even. Lenhart was in front of Olave. Olave was quickly catching up so Lenhart made sure he put his body in between Olave and the ball. Olave had plenty of time to react and avoid the collision, but dug his right shoulder into Lenhart's back instead. charging/pushing, DOSGO
BS I honestly don't know how/why you see it this way. Explain to me how Lenhart kicks the back of Olave's leg if he has body position. It isn't because of Olave's Shoulder dipping a little as a player is charging into him.
I will take a stab... Yes. You are probably trying to say that Lenhart is legally shielding (and, yes, that's allowed within playing distance). But once you say "grab to impede", I think you've thrown legal shielding out the window. If Lenhart is legally shielding, he can be legally charged, but not carelessly pushed. If Lenhart fouled, that's it. Blow the whistle. Of course, it's probably not impeding. More likely holding.Either way, whoever commits the first foul wins the prize. Of course, the ref could decide that the first one was trivial, and punish the second one. But that's different from saying that the first one gives you permission to commit the second one. Not sure if I cleared it up or made it worse.
To add to this comment, if Lenhart leans over, then Olave's charge isn't required to be shoulder-to-shoulder. At the same time, a charge that's shoulder-to-back will almost always be deemed a push.
His point is very simple, by the standard set forth in this example every single professional match every single weekend would see 5-7 minutes added time, yet we don't see that week in week out. Would be interesting to see how many matches have gone 6 minutes in the past year and what percentage of matches that represents. Get over yourself.
Its just my opinion. Olave shoulder-charges Lenhart in the back while Lenhart is leaning forward/off balance. Lenhart grabs Olaves shorts and kicks his left leg out to manage his center of gravity. When someone exerts a force on you towards your right, your natural reaction is to kick out your left foot/arm for balance. The shoulder-to-back contact happens 2 strides before Lenhart kicks out his left leg and grabs Olave's shorts.
Please take your whining about the six minutes back to the fan thread. Your team gave up the winning goal in the 91st minute. You guys have no clue. DC United-NY... played in a monsoon, 4-1 entering stoppage time, 3 second half subs, no injuries. Could have added 2 minutes. What's the point? This game was 1-1 and one team had a 2-man advantage. At least 2 minutes of that stoppage time was caused by Olave not leaving the field in a timely manner. The team with that advantage deserves the time lost to try to win the game. You don't reward a player who has been kicked out for his time-wasting. Your boys lost 1-0 to SKC a few weeks back, SKC scored the lone goal in the 63rd minute. Kevin Stott added 5 minutes in the second half, giving your boys an extra five minutes to find the equalizer. 5 subs (2:30), a goal (0:30), 3 cautions (1:30)... 4:30 rounded up to 5:00. Why aren't you complaining about getting an five minutes in that game? If you're going to make an argument, have half a sense to know what you are talking about.
Vetchak, I will now bow before you as a god of futbal, Because I simply know nothing of the the game and you are clearly the god of telling all who disagree with you to ******** off. Point I am making is simple, if every match got the same treatment, every match would get 6 minutes stoppage, they don't.
The whole point of added time was to not run soccer into a basketball match with a countdown and to give the referee a fair and honest way of concluding the match and for teams to not try and kill the match as a spectacle. Some people need to get a clue how added time works. If the game is not in doubt as a contest you end the match as soon as possible. If there is a contest you give the teams what they deserve in lost time. That's one of my problems with EPL refs. They sometimes don't understand the spirit of added time. I see guys adding 5 minutes on a 5-0 game. Play one or two and get out of there.
I'm sorry, I don't recall using any profanity in any of my posts. You're right, if every match got the same treatment, every match would get quite a bit of time added on. You do what the game needs. The first person who responded to my comments about the added time was insinuating that I should apply those standards to every match I or others work. That is a complete misunderstanding of how added time works. As RedStar just pointed out. I don't go to the RSL supporter thread and make comments defending the referee from the match. This would be a waste of my time, and I would likely be flamed off the thread in a matter of minutes. I have no problem with a supporter coming to the referee thread to see how referees are discussing match decisions, but if you are ignorant of how the Laws are applied, then be respectful of the discussion. If you're just here to troll, then feel free to return to the company of your fellow supporters. I can take an insult; I'm a referee. If you can't, I can assure you that you are on the wrong thread.
Look, remove the red card, and you have a pretty standard 2nd half - couple of yellow cards, couple of subs, one injury. You'd expect 3-4 minutes, right? Now add the red card, which took 3 minutes to sort out. Boom. 6 minutes.
Newbie question: While on the field, in the heat of the moment, how often can you look at a play and say to yourself: "That is such and such and he flops." Or words to that effect and then make a critical decision? Cheers, Mi3ke
It was impossible for Olave to put his shoulder in Lehhart's back. Watch the following from 0:41 to 0:43. Watch Olave's right hand/arm. You can see that as Lenhart reaches across Olave's body that Olave's arm is between Lenhart's arm and body. Should-to-back just isn't possible. The upper body contact was actually the top of Olave's upper arm and front of his shoulder to the underside of Lenhart's upper arm and possibly side. With his arm caught between Lanhart's arm and side Olave's arm will only go as far as Lenhart's side. His shoulder cannot somehow move outside of his arm to get to Lenhart's back. http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2012-04-21-sj-v-rsl/highlights?videoID=183086