Post-match: San Jose Earthquakes - Club Deportivo Chivas USA (Sunday, 5/13) postgame thread [R]

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by Goodsport, May 13, 2012.

  1. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
    Chivas had, I think, two touches in our box the entire game. An old slow poacher is not what would concern me much. I'm sure Frank lost no sleep over him.
    Cramping at the end of the first half on the road with a lead? You're going to give a Columbian that much credit? ;) I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and rewatch the first half to see if the announcer just had goal-goggles on or not.

    Well, the points claim was an oversimplification. Just like in the Houston match I was quite satisfied with the extent to which the Quakes dominated this game. Only the final touch was off. Soccer has more harsh results than any other sport, due to the low scores. Your initial point was not that soccer has harsh results but that the teams were comparable
    I contend Chivas remains bad and will miss the playoffs by a good amount, while the Quakes will coast into the playoffs with or without the injured guys.
    You're beating up a straw man. Of course bunkering was a fine strategy for this outmanned road team (and the blocked shots show that it had an effect), but if you're giving up that many clear scoring chances you are being outplayed. Go watch the replays. Nobody gives up 15 corners to Lenhart and Wondo on purpose, or relies on diving saves from their keeper and scrums in front of goal to go their way. Their coach knows damn well they got a lucky result. If this was the only game of the year on TV, viewers would come away saying the home team was a solid playoff team and the road team was a bunch of scrubs with no recourse but to stand 11 men in front of the goal and hope every shot is missed.
    Well, I'm sure we can agree he's an interesting prospect and it will be fun watching him develop. I like that he uses both feet and appears to have decent height, speed and control.
     
  2. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
    I hope Wondo is pissed and comes back strong next week. So many headers over the bar. And stumbling over the ball in the box. And what was up with that free kick?
    I wish he'd gone to it at the 30 minute mark, it didn't involve any personnel changes. Beita was wide open and very effective for most of the 2nd half (whereas Baca clearly was not effective in the first half). The question is whether Chivas would have allowed that space in the first half.
    Is Sercan actually fast or just quick? Can you point out something good Garza did besides the cross? I am curious. I mean, he's exciting but it seemed like he had several turnovers in the few touches he had.
     
  3. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah i like Ampai too. Given the fact we have 30 man squads I think we will keep him around this year and next season. Guys like Gjersten, Ward, Newton, Hustedt, and Suggs will get the axe well before Ampai.

    I think he survives one more superdraft with a few previous names getting the axe, and will need to show hes worth keeping around.

    Hes obviously down the depth charts though with guys like Baca, Stephenson (why frank is impressed with him aside from his free kicks i will never know), Moreno, and Dawkins. Keep in mind this is probable Dawkins's last year with us as well. We'll probably try and latch on to a League one or even a championship side after this go around. To be completely honest id take Ampai over Stephenson. His lack of doing anything constructive is annoying me and he should be behind guys like Cronin, and even Ring and Ampai, hes just nothing but a big body that can line up shots well from outside. As i recall Ampai has a pretty mean shot from the perimeter himself.
     
  4. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thing with Jason is these hospital balls, 50:50 balls and clearly off-target balls coming out of the back are a recurring theme from him. And this time, this recurring issue with him cost us dearly.
    Also I noticed Justin defers to him far too often considering it's one of the weak spots in Jason's game.
     
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  5. elvinjones

    elvinjones Member

    Jul 4, 2011
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah but it was still the smartest thing for Chivas to do, along with time wasting. So it may not be as lucky as you think. Not that we're at all similar in level but did you see the Chelsea Barcelona games? Also the QPR Man City game yesterday. QPR - a relegation level team - were two minutes from beating Man City...

    Also, I am really optimistic about the future, as long as we spend all our money and get the stadium, I like how are team is being run with the options we have. It kindof seems that some people are expecting stars out of our reserve guys, but I don't think we'll see someone knock our socks off in an individual manner like that.
     
  6. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    No, but I'm going to give a Colombian that much credit. :--)

    I wish I could back out of my previous claims that easily, and call them a "simplification" :--).

    Didn't say that they were comparable as much as saying that 1) Chivas was not that bad and that 2) the Quakes were missing some key players, and that 3) there is still considerable parity in MLS such that there is no such thing as a "sure win". The whole "soccer has harsh results" thing just adds to the chance that the Quakes would not have an easy game.

    This is just the way these kinds of games go. Nothing unusual about it, and doesn't necessarily prove a point about the relative disparity of the teams. Again, go watch the 2010 Quakes in their 1-0 win at Seattle or their 2-1 win at Philly. The attacking team is going to get lots of opportunities, lots of corners, etc. The bunkering road team is going to absorb lots of chances. The stats are going to be lopsided.

    Here's an excerpt from an article about the Quakes' 2-1 win over Philly in 2010, when they were completely bombarded in the 2nd half, by an expansion team BTW, but the Quakes still managed to win on the Alvarez run during stoppage time. 10 shots on goal to 3, an even greater difference than 6 to 1 in yesterday's match. Again, this is an expansion team dominating a playoff bound team. Why? 1) At home teams tend to attack and go for the win, and 2) road team bunkering trying to "see out" a win (or in this case a "tie").

    The play highlighted a glaring statistic.

    The Earthquakes (6-4-4) had just one shot on goal in the first half, and they converted. In the second half, they fired off two and converted the second. It took San Jose just three shots on goal to win, and the Union fired off 10, eight in the second half.

    "That's soccer," Seitz said. "Sometimes you dominate a game like that, [but] we could have played another half-hour and I don't know if we would have scored again. For us, it's a little bit of focus and it's a little bit of luck, and luck wasn't on our side."
     
  7. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

    Aug 23, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Counting up the optastats, we had 40 crosses in that game, of which 13 were successful. Most teams average something like 18-23 crosses per game. We also need to schedule some extra finishing practice or something. 24 shots and only 1 goal!

    We seemed to start off in second gear before picking it up after about 15 minutes. Garza's assist was a very nice cross, hopefully he can build on this performance and continue to work his way up.

    I don't have a problem with playing Khari and Moreno together against weaker teams like Chivas... that is a very attacking formation that usually produces lots of goals like it did against D.C. United. When we play stronger teams we should definitely have Cronin in there at defensive mid though.
     
  8. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    100% correct. I'm so tired of his poor distribution from the back.

    I noticed shortly after their goal that Frank was talking with Jason. After the discussion, he was next to Carrera for the remainder of the game.

    In my mind, Jason has been going the wrong direction in the last year and a half.
     
  9. nihon2000

    nihon2000 Member

    Oct 14, 2008
    San Jose
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After watching the Chivas goal (on the highlights), I'm very surprised that Jason, Corrales, Dawkins are the only ones being called out & no one is blaming FY for his lineup & tactics.

    for example,
    Why is Khari pushed up on the right hand side (further ahead than Moreno)? Moreno is too slow to play the "holding" midfield role, IMO. So why is Jason launching the ball to Dawkins & not using Moreno to play thru the midfield? Didn't we have the ball possession (midfield) guys in the starting XI? Isn't this a coaching issue?

    Out!

    Go Quakes!!
     
  10. WondoSoWonderful

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    its pretty tough to pin an individual play on the coach. all of the players have minds of their own, frank can't do the thinking for all of them out on the field.
     
  11. nihon2000

    nihon2000 Member

    Oct 14, 2008
    San Jose
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Still, ..., FY selected Jason, Corrales, Moreno, & Khari for the starting XI, didn't he? Plus, we know what
    we get from them e.g., slow Corrales & slow holding mid & long ball Jason.

    No disrespect is intended.
     
  12. WondoSoWonderful

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    what other 2 defenders would you put in over hernandez and corrales?
     
  13. rafa13

    rafa13 Member

    Aug 31, 2008
    Salinas
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Garza looked out of shape. Khari should have been the first sub
     
  14. nihon2000

    nihon2000 Member

    Oct 14, 2008
    San Jose
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. WondoSoWonderful

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
  16. nihon2000

    nihon2000 Member

    Oct 14, 2008
    San Jose
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    check again.
     
  17. WondoSoWonderful

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    corrales, moreno, stephenson. 3, my mistake. still don't really understand what ur getting at though
     
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  18. due time

    due time Member+

    Mar 1, 1999
    Santa Clara
    I agree with your post except this item. Shots that don't make it past the first defender are not usually categorized as 'dangerous'. 'Ill-conceived' would be more accurate when the shot just ploughs into the defender with no chance of going in the net. For a player that links up well, why didn't he find a teammate with a much higher percentage play on the ball than he had?

    And controls the ball? Seriously, go watch the replays. He dribbles himself into trouble regularly. Actually I do agree that he has relatively good ball control. Unfortunately, he doesn't use that skill productively very often. I prefer a player like Salinas or Garza that attack with less skill, but are able to find a teammate in the process, rather than Dawkins who attacks on the dribble until he's stripped of the ball.

    And while I don't pin the goal on Dawkins, he lacked the pace to catch Riley and stop the cross. His top speed is just not quite up to standard for a wing player. If he plays at all he belongs in the middle, where he did do a bit better late in the game. But I'd put him lower on the pecking order than 3 others on the team.

    Let's face it. There's a reason he's not at Tottenham right now. He's not a premier league caliber player and maybe not even MLS caliber on a talented team.
     
  19. nihon2000

    nihon2000 Member

    Oct 14, 2008
    San Jose
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    since you're new here, I cut you some slack :)

    Corrales is too slow to play outside back.
    Plus, when Moreno/Khari are paired, who is the holding midfielder?
    Lastly, I didn't have Jason in my starting XI (i.e., Jason isn't the preferred
    CD when we are using our ball possession (mid fielders) lineup; though, I have a
    ton of respect for him (on and off the pitch).
     
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  20. WondoSoWonderful

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    true, but idk about ramiro at cb either. we just really need bernardez back!
     
  21. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lets be honest, we arent going to be a top defensive team with Bernardez out. And out midfield options are somewhat constrained without Chavez and Salinas available. And Chivas, for god knows what reason, has always given us trouble. They got a goal then bunkered 85 minutes, unfortunately bunkering is the one thing they do well as a team. So lets not freak out about this tie, our biggest problem with solve itself in a couple weeks when big Victor gets back.

    We have 3 games left before the break, Columbus at home, and LA and KC on the road. If we can go 1-1-1 in those games we get into the break at 8-3-3 which is way the f*** better then anyone here would expect. Then we can get healthy and probably have an easier time staying healthy, since most of our travel miles will be behind us.
     
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  22. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not necessarily a coaching issue. Frank can't go out and make the passes for the team. I too noticed that we started out with more long ball and Moreno did not get many touches early on. All too often our defenders will forgo the higher percentage shorter pass to one of our midfielders for a speculative upfield pass to Wondo or Lenhart. Not saying we shouldn't make those passes sometimes, but, in my opinion there was too much early on.
     
  23. QuietType

    QuietType Member+

    Jun 6, 2009
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The goal was on Dawkins? I didn't know he was a left back, that's good to know for next game. :rolleyes:
    Dawkins shouldn't have even been in that position if Corrales wasn't up too far so often forcing Simon to drop back. This happened again and again during this game and has been happening way too often. Ramiro is then too slow to get back when he gets beat down the left side. Simon shouldn't have to drop back to cover Ramiro's @**. Ramiro needs to focus on defending the left side since he's too slow to get back when he pushes up too far. This is something Yallop should be correcting, but that's also assuming he a) has noticed it being a problem, and b) would dare tell his "captain" Corrales what he should and shouldn't do.

    The one thing I noticed yesterday which stuck out like a sore thumb was Hernandez's long ball. It was last year all over again. When Jason touched the ball in the back, he was looking ahead - not to the guys close to him, but looking down the field. You saw this immediately when he got the ball in the back. Instead of keeping the ball on the ground and going to the outside or midfield, Jason would just lift his head up, and boot the ball to the top of the field. What hopeless, sad play...

    I'm starting to think the reason we haven't seen so much long ball this season is because Jason hasn't been on the field much until now. :(
     
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  24. nihon2000

    nihon2000 Member

    Oct 14, 2008
    San Jose
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Ike can be taught to be more like
    Victor which will allow Ike to be better
    paired with either Morrow or Corrales.

    One thing that I've noticed about Victor's
    play is that he is very aggressive stopping the
    ball .. & that Victor can play well without
    a holding mid in front of the back line. Otoh,
    both Ike and Jason are more dependent on
    having a holding mid in front of the back line.
     
  25. WondoSoWonderful

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    true as well. however, i also think we've seen more mistakes from Opara than any other CB this season, thus far. Also, Frank hasn't paired Bernardez and Opara yet
     

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