San Francisco Expansion Team

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by tac7713, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Il Ciuccio

    Il Ciuccio Member+

    Feb 17, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    we can support a hockey team in the city but not a soccer team...SF bulls hockey team.
     
  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure it is applicable? The Bulls are a minor league affiliate of the Sharks, so virtually all of their fans will be both a Sharks fan and a Bulls fan. That likely would not be the case with a NASL team. The story would probably be different if the team was USL and affiliated to the Earthquakes.
     
  3. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Support" isn't the word you're looking for. The Bulls attendance is second to last in the entire ECHL ahead of only Wheeling, West Virginia by about 100 fans a game and less than half the league average... So no San Francisco can't actually support the Bulls. I'll actually be surprised if they don't fold after this season or next. Not really the example you want to be using of how worthy of a team SF is. In fact the Bulls are a good example of why a minor league team in SF is a waste of time if you put them in an old run down venue in an out of the way place. And the Bulls do that bad with the support of the local and very popular NHL Sharks and their fans.
     
    30King repped this.
  4. Il Ciuccio

    Il Ciuccio Member+

    Feb 17, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Its still a new team I think support will grow for them.
     
  5. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They're 2/3rd of the way through their second season. Attendance has been in a pretty continual decline since they started play and they've lost almost 50% of their average fanbase year over year. Growing isn't what they're doing. Fading into obscurity like every SF based minor league team before them is more accurately describing their situation.
     
  6. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I doubt playing at the Cow Palace has helped matters. I don't know much about hockey because I never cared to watch it but aren't all the Bulls players Canadian? If so, I'm sure it could be tough for local fans to get into.
     
  7. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A hockey team made up mostly of Canadians? That's unpossible.
     
    redinthemorning repped this.
  8. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What does the national origin of the players have to do with how fans root for them? Not that all of them are Canadian, but do you only root for the Americans on the Quakes?
     
  9. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #434 falvo, Jan 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
    Well yes a lot of us do. One of the reasons on why the original NASL folded was the fact that there weren't enough local American born players fans couldn't identify with. This is also reason on why the MLS was founded to have a playing ground for domestic players to develop and shine and to eventually land a better national team. Yeah everyone wants to see foreigners also but you also need at least some home grown or domestic players too. I know I do if I'm trying to learn and follow a sport. If anything, I wish Quakes and MLS would sign more American born college players as opposed to the Caribbeans as I don't retain their skills any better. If anything if you scout , train and develop the right domestic players, you probably don't need to go after them.
     
  10. 4four4

    4four4 Member+

    Nov 13, 2013
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    In Minnesota it is unheard of. ;)
     
  11. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #436 falvo, Jan 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
    I know a lot of SF European and Latin soccer fans as I practically frequented the Mission and North Beach districts on a weekly basis. Knowing their mentality, I'm sure they consider the USL & NASL version of soccer unwatchable. If anything, many of them even disregard MLS and consider it an inferior league. Most of them would rather save their money , stay and watch foreign games either from home or at the local soccer pubs. Its kind of hard to cater to that crowd and where there isn't much of a buzz or push to get a team going, not sure how you can start from scratch. Anyway, whether its USL, NASL or MLS, I've still yet to see which ownership group wants to find a team in the city.
     
  12. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No it really won't. The Bulls are folding or relocating as soon as next week...

    http://blog.sfgate.com/sgreen/2014/01/20/sf-bulls-to-fold-or-move-as-soon-as-next-week/

    Just want to say, told you so! Minor league sports in San Francisco are a waste of time, NASL included. SF fans are finicky frontrunners who only root for top level teams in their respective sports. And even then they need top notch venues and/or winners to come out regularly as history shows. An NASL team might do a little better than the Victory did (averaging somewhere in the 3 digits for attendance), but it won't do well enough to survive. Particularly if they're not playing in a flashy, overpriced venue near the waterfront and do a massive (and expensive) marketing campaign trying to overstate what they really are. Kind of like the Cosmos.
     
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  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Well that didn't last....
     
  14. 30King

    30King Member+

    Jul 22, 2013
    Rocklin, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Not a hockey fan at all, but always thought Sacto would be a good place for a minor league team. I'm using Stockton Thunder success as a barometer. If the Bulls somehow relocated up here, I think it would kill Stockton's attendance, though, since a good portion (I think) come from the Sac County area.

    Stockton (the city) is struggling so bad, I would not be surprised at all if the Thunder moved up to Sac when their lease expired (coincidentally coinciding with the Kings new arena- hmmm???)
     
  15. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly it "didn't last" even quicker than I anticipated. I figured they'd at least get to finish the a season out. But when you're 4+ million dollars in the hole already after only 2 seasons at that level it's pretty bad. Looks like Fresno might be getting a hockey team in the VERY near future since the Warriors seem poised to block any Bulls move to OAK. As for the Thunder moving up to Sac, not sure why they would do so. They've got a good set up in Stockton being the only game in town, get good attendance, and play in an arena tailored to a team their sport and team size. Not sure what appeal shoehorning themselves into Sac's basketball only arena as a second class team would really have for them since it's not the citizens or the team that went bankrupt in Stockton, just the city. (And remember people thought the Warriors new SF arena would make a great home for the Bulls too...).
     
  16. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Didn't Troy Dayak's Stockton indoor team fold?
     
  17. 30King

    30King Member+

    Jul 22, 2013
    Rocklin, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Stockton Thunder had an attendance drop-off from +/- 6300 in 2010.....to +/- 4400 for the past season. Though the venue is nice, and tailor-made for hockey, the problem is location (Stockton). I can't speak from experience, but I have a number of hockey friends (a few that actually play in amateur leagues), and they all have said that going to downtown Stockton is sketchy, at best. I worked in Stockton for five years, so I know what they are talking about.

    I saw a local report a while back (can't remember where) that said a large amount of their fan base is Sac based. Playing second fiddle to the Kings in a downtown Sac arena may be better, long term, for viability, IMO.

    I don't want to derail the thread though. I don't follow hockey enough to make a case for moving the Stockton team. It was just a 10,000 foot brainstorm
     
  18. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Stockton Cougars? Yeah they folded after the 2010-11 PASL Pro season. But that's not unusual, indoor soccer has higher turnover than a McDonald's Drive-Thru.
     
  19. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I've always loved Cougars. ;)
     
  20. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm partial to the San Diego Sockers myself. They get crowds of 4,000-5,000 out regularly to watch what is essentially a hybrid/niche sport (I describe it to people as hockey-soccer). And they've run or nearly run the table all of their prior seasons until now (and even on their first "off" year they're still only one win out of first place). And they get some pretty dedicated folks out with their scarves, chants, attention to the game, etc... Not Ultras level, but damned good for a crowd of regular folks.

    But to swing it back to the thread's topic, I don't think indoor soccer would work in SF any more than it worked in Stockton. Or that any other minor league team has worked in SF. No if SF is going to get a team it'll have to be an MLS team to even have a shot. And that likely won't happen until the Quakes want it to happen (which could very well be never). And even then it'll require a NYCFC level of investment.
     
  21. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would they bother to renegotiate when they would be fighting over a piece of negative $1.5 million?

    1,000? I'm pretty sure you can, and it's not a very high price, either...
     
    kenntomasch repped this.
  22. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dayak was long gone by the time that happened.

    The Cougars were actually one of the few indoor teams to actually get sold (and they were sold a couple of times). They dropped to the PASL and then folded. Stockton's arena is nice, I liked it. But they struggled to make it financially (obviously).

    Too bad about the Bulls. I was going to go to a game when I was in town for business last February, but it didn't work out. IIRC, the old IHL Spiders played at the Cow Palace as well (where the Sharks actually began).

    ECHL hockey ain't easy. Lower-level soccer ain't easy. None of it is easy.
     
  23. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a reason it is hard to put a price on many things that people say are "intangible."

    It's because they don't exist.

    I don't believe there is any evidence that growing up near a pro sports team makes a youth player a better player as an adult, or a better person.

    This "having role models to aspire to be" thing is nice and all, but ( a ) you would think there would be a lot of disappointed dreamers out there, give how many teams in these sports fold and ( b ) it's amazing how our women's national team was able to excel despite most of its members never having pro female players to watch play.
     
  24. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And your attendance is near the bottom of said league. A league where Elmira, Ohio, outdraws you, and they're the laughingstock.

    Oh, bra-vo.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually they're not being outdrawn by Elmira, OH anymore. They'd have to have a team for that to be happening.
     

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