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Discussion in 'DC United' started by perugazu, Apr 24, 2012.
Gouda for you.
It's one thing as a fan to have an emotional attachment to certain players. Heck, that's a pretty important part of being a sports fan.
Owners, though, don't have the luxury of getting attached to any player. Once a player's worth on the transfer market is more than his ongoing value as a member of the roster, it's time to sell and replace him. It's a smart business model to be on the lookout to maximize the return on player investment by finding undervalued players and buying them cheap, then selling them for a profit some years down the road.
And the fans' sentimental attachment to players is overrated. Fans like winning teams and will forgive any player change so long as the team is succesful.
^^^ Exactly. I'm not sold on Hamid. I think he has a bright future if he continues to get better. But, to say he's worth millions as a transfer when he has now been designated as a backup is a bit delusional. His big chance was probably already lost on the US not making the Olympics.
Najar, OTOH, still has a chance of being on an Olympic team and making a big splash. With that said, if he can't crack the lineup for his national team I don't see big transfer fees in his near future.
Both these guys would be well suited to just working hard and earning their spots back as starters with DC United. The rest will take care of itself.
Maybe you don't understand the phrase "to each their own."
I think everyone has gone a little upset for my starting this conversation but if you look at world soccer it is business to sell young players. DC united have a chance to sell these players for some money in the summer- it is known by observing that more players are to find new teams in europe in summer. Winter is more short of a time for teams to buy and more difficult. MLS is hard anyways for playing in different schedule than europe. Also Ben olsen is showing to fans and his own players he likes more the hard kind of players. This is fine- example of this is Cruz that i said. Cruz fits more to what ben olsen is liking. before you let any value for Najar disappear , that the team and the player worked hard to get in his time with us, you should probably sell him while he has his most value. I am not soccer expert but growing up in a country where soccer is more than it is in USA and people see different the sport why would it be so hard for DC united to sell Hamid/Najar for money in the front and also a % when they are sold again from their next team or when they make a certain number of games at their new team.
Olsen like willis and cruz. We have right players now to allow these two to move and start again in europe. Pontius/cruz/de leon and olsen show he can put neil there also can play in the spot of najar. I have seen now some people who call me short sited but maybe they are. the money from these boys who came from our academy can be used for new players/ stadium/practice place. Also maybe it seems the coaching team has a hard time with bigger talents/personalityes. Boskovic/salihi/najar/hamid/charlie davies all are with us in last year or so and all are now either out of our team or maybe wishing to leave. For me it say something about the style of the coach...that is fine, he has ideas. but if player doesnt fit for your idea, you must sell while they have a value or you will have players who dont have desire to play for you. It is even happening in your mens league team on a sunday! if you dont play you are not happy. DC United was only talking about najar/hamid for 2 years and was important for them to talk about when we were so bad. Now we are starting good and if they are no going to be part of the team like before maybe we must let them move. we fans always say we must be loyal to our team and players must be loyal to our team but sometimes team/coach must be loyal to a player. also maybe our coaching team does not have the experience now to deal with these players. We love coach Ben because of what he do for us when he played...but the rest...not very much experiences for them.
this are my thoughts...we can all see our own way but maybe some of the fans here who are not from a country where teams survive by selling dont understand always. MLS make it safe for teams, in other places you sell to bring more. how much players have DC United actually sold in the history....not so many. As soccer becomes more important and more important players want to come to our team and league you must see the business picture and sometimes you must sell instead of "teach" with time on bench. What did Najar/Hamid do that makes them the ones for teaching? nothing I think . yes they leave to go with the olympic team for their countries but probably they arent learning by sitting on the bench. All of us fans were talking so high of najar and hamid and now we are saying ahhh ok let them learn on the bench.
I was not so lucky to learn in a university so i had to work from 17 years old which is ok. I did not learn by sitting and watching the others work, i learn by doing the work. Sitting is maybe not the best.
If you don't even know when their contracts run out how can you know that summer may be a good time to sell them?
summer is when more teams are buying players. january time is more difficult, look at dempsey when everyone was saying he maybe leave fulham in january, is more difficult because is middle of season in europe. We make it more difficult for our player in MLS to leave because we are opposite of them.
look in our own team, we bring more players before season is starting then in middle of season. Is same idea for europe.
You said you were from another country, so I am going to assume English is maybe a second language, and not that yours is not good or that you dont' understand English, but I think it might be that some of the finer points of the conversation are getting lost in the translation.
That said, I think most of us understand what you're saying fairly well, we just happen to disagree.
And since you do come from another country, it leads me to believe that you don't quite fully understand the dynamics of soccer here in America. To some degree, yes, MLS is a "feeder" league, but neither the league or the clubs do this in a "survival" sense as you indicated. Selling players in MLS has very little to do with survival as it might in other leagues around the world.
Finally, most of your second statements were repeats of your original statements and you didn't respond to any of the posts that argued against your opinion.
I doubt anyone is angry with you. You've just failed to make a convincing argument for your opinion.
If their contracts end for example July 1, 2012 then selling them would be useless because DC United wouldn't get anything for them. Now if their contracts expire a year later you might have a case.
it was news in the website maybe 1 year ago that each najar and hamid sign new contracts with the team so they with a contract for at 2/3 more years. i am not soccer expert but i have seen that mls puts 5 year contracts for many players so probably these are the same
NO - Some of us actually agree that its a good idea to sell hot commodities - If a young player really wants to go to Europe and there is at least one team with substantial financial interest, then by all means sell him - Its better than not selling him, letting his contract run out, and then he leaves DC United wihout the team getting a transfer fee - Bad Business Model
And while MLS certainly isn't a "feeder league" for most of its players, for the best younger players, perhaps it should be - And for DC United, with an owner short on liquidity, some cash influx will always be helpful
PS: They both got new contracts recently - They're locked in for a while - Now, or at least after this fall and the Olympics and International friendlies, is the time to sell them - NOT in 2 or 3 years
Well that's why I said "most of us". And I think you are making an extreme case of holding a player to their contract that wants to leave, of course that's not usually a smart move. If there was a bonafide offer for either of them, of a substantial and fair sum, and they explicitly told the club they want to go, then yes in most cases the club should take the money and run. Even if that were this summer.
But his point was also that we should be playing these players in league games solely for the purpose of ensuring that we can sell them-- soon.
And as I said earlier, the best business decision this club can make is winning games. Being a winner and relevant in the sports landscape will go MUCH further toward getting a stadium deal in place than selling 10 Hamids and Najars. Okay, maybe not 10.
If they have value and want to leave should we sell them before we lose the ability to do it? Of course we should, but that's not really the simple argument being made here.
so ben olsen putting neal in as a sub last game was good for our team? he is never going for more than mls. the score was already fine for us but ben pick neil. as a business you play najar at least for the 15 minutes. is no going to change you from winning to losing. this show our team has no plan for all areas. yes we can win but who is reminding the coaching team we must also protect the value the team has in players? our presidente should be telling them no in last game they dont need to start if you dont think he is good now but surely as a sub. also is more important for our team to find a way to get najar to play like the najar all people were talking so good about and that played good against el salvador in sub 23 tournament or to give to lewis neal 15 minutes in the season?
again this is my opinion but for me it shows our team is making thing up everyday instead of making a full plan and living by this plan for a few years.
We were ahead, sure, but just coming off of a wasted opportunity vs. Montreal and a number of close games, I have no problem with putting in Neal. A big win is great for morale, and the weakest part of Najar's game is defense. Plus he's a small guy on a slick field in the driving rain. If Neal gets injured, we're not in trouble. If Najar does, people up and down these boards would be asking why the hell Ben put him in. I would be.
I'm much more concerned about Najar's getting on the field to help DCU this year than I am about his theoretical resale value at some future time TBD. That was not a good time to put him in, and I think Ben made the right decision. If it becomes a pattern -- i.e. if Najar rarely sees the field -- then we have to wonder what has happened.
Truth is so far Najar's not impressed and the others have. That's why he isn't starting. His coming in as a 15 minute sub in a driving rainstorm against a beaten opposition won't affect his resale at all. Pontius had already scored a hat trick, and anything Najar would have done -- even if he scored a wonderful goal -- would have been overshadowed by Pontius' great showing.
And as to whether or not there's a plan, well when this team starts to show it can win two (or dare I say more) in a row we may -- may -- have the luxury of thinking about possibly moving people around for resale. But even then, we'd still need a plan as to what we'd want to get with the money. For now, your argument seems to be putting cart way before horse.
Ben knows what Najar can do in MLS--he's seen him play for more than two years. He doesn't know what Neal can bring to the team.
jaja he was there for everyone to see in orlando. i will leave all the experts to talk about it but he is 30 years old and was a reason he was playing in low levels in united states as foreign player. he was not given offer from real salt lake who took him on trial first. it is clear he is not a big talent or player with chance to move on from DC. at 30 he should have learned all he can from his many years of good professional experience...........we have a player we had in our academy who is still 19 and will be playing to represent us in olympics...maybe is good he is playing regular time for our team instead of making him to go to olympics after many weeks of sitting.
The organization's main goal is survival. That can't happen without additional investors and a stadium (which is likely not possible without the additional investors; so getting additional investors is the key).
Investors are not going to invest many millions of their dollars into this team and a stadium for this team if they think the team isn't going to draw fans to games. DC City Council members aren't going to stick their necks out for a stadium deal if they think nobody goes to the games. And neither potential investors nor councilmembers are going to think the team can draw if DCU continue to attract fewer than 15k per match. We used to draw big numbers; we used to be one of the best draws in the league. Now, we draw small numbers. What happened? What happened is that the team sucked for several years, and thousands of people stopped going to games, or stopped going as often. What will fix that? Winning.
Yes, selling players makes Chang and the league money. But it's small potatoes money compared to how the landscape changes if this team becomes relevant in the DC market like it used to be. Going for the quick buck is, IMHO, the true short-sighted perspective.
Salihi is now "maybe wishing to leave"? The word "maybe" is doing waaaaay too much work in that sentence. Davies sucked and cost alot of money. That's not on Olsen. Hamid lost his job because Willis is playing well and the team is REALLY playing well. Basically, these two sentences are pretty awful.
we will see how salihi goes when branko and team have a decision in summer. which player do you think probably told salihi to come to dc united....i believe it was not dykstra but maybe more likely branko. player have influence over another. davies only cost a portion of his money to mls, you maybe will read all the stories again. he was close to free player who still made 11 goals. say what you can but 11 goals are all goals. i believe from all the story that came out that charlie and ben could not work together and ben was picking to not respond to what charlie say.
maybe you have become a fan since mls and now you are now thinking that you are knowing a little too much. that would be a not nice thing to say but i dont say anything you let come from your mouth is bad or awful. We can let you have your say but let see what happens, for me it is fine and i only hope the best for the team. but it happen all over the world, when a player is convinced to come to a team by a friend or former player on a team. Salihi has no history with our team but you think he will be happy sitting behind players when he can go back to europe to what he knows more and maybe enjoy himself more? How many foreign players do we get right in last few years?? is always the players to blame or maybe like i say before, our coaching team does not handle big talent or personalityes the best?
maybe there is a conection. gallardo (arg) come for a little bit of one season with franco niell ( arg) and Peralta. Say what you will for them but as soon as one was not happy, it happen fast with all of them and were all finish. Same for martinez the colombian who came same time as them. Now neill went to score goals again in argentina, brazil and mexico....but those leagues are not so good i guess you will say? gallardo went back and play 40 games for River plate before he was finish.
This thread is confusing ... seems like everyone is talking about different things that have nothing to do with each other.
First of all it's undeniable that DC is willing to sell players for the right price. This is kind of irrelevant though because this isn't like playing FIFA where you get transfer requests every day. It's a tough economy out there and there just aren't that many clubs out there throwing cash around at relatively obscure MLS players. With Hamid and Najar in particular the odds a little better with their NT exposure, but it's pointless to speculate until we hear of an offer from someone.
The second argument I'm hearing is that Olsen should take all this into consideration when picking his team? That's ridiculous. Olsen's only responsibility is to his career as a coach, which means he needs to win. A winning team brings more money to a club than a one time transfer. What does Olsen get out playing certain players to increase their values and the results suffer for whatever reason and then he gets fired?
That kind of politicized player selection is typical in some more corrupt foreign leagues, but MLS coaches are usually very professional in picking their squads. Except NY of course where Marquez's place on the field is protected by the front office and Backe is just a corporate puppet.
Maybe. Or maybe a guy, I don't care how good he is or how much he's paid or where he has played or could play, just maybe that guy who hasn't scored with any of the minutes he's been given that is sitting behind players who ARE scoring with their minutes, should take it like a man, sack up, and be professional. If he can't do that, then I don't want him on the team. He can leave today, if that's how he felt.
That said, I like Salihi, and I can't wait for him to get on the field and earn his keep. Or are we talking about Najar?
I'm speculating here, just maybe you are somehow personally connected to Najar, because I honestly really can't see any other reason you are so hot on this issue.
By not playing in games right now, Najar has a lot more to lose than anybody else on the team.
And maybe our team was a total disaster when Gallardo was here, and who cares why he left or what he did afterward? The team kinda SUCKED, so I'm not sure we should all be sitting around pining over the great players we've lost.
And MAYBE, there was a TOTALLY DIFFERENT coaching staff in 2008, so your point is essentially illogical and invalid.
Again, you keep saying the same things without really making any convincing supporting statements. Are you a radical blogger?
To address the players you listed:
1) Bosco- I'm pulling for the guy, but he still hasn't shown himself to be worth the DP salary he's being paid. The guy is a professional and a veteran, he shouldn't need all that much coaching.
2) Salihi- That guy has been with the team for about a quarter of a season so far. It's probably too early to tell whether he was a good acquisition or not. Again, he's a professional and a veteran and should not require too much coaching.
3) Najar- Andy is having a bit of a lull. It happens to every player. Meanwhile, other players are doing really well. I'm sure it's being worked on in practice, but he needs to earn back his starting spot.
4) Hamid- He went away for the Olympics qualifying. While he was gone, Willis had a breakout performance and the team is on a 6-game undefeated streak. Like Najar, Hamid needs to earn back his starting spot.
5) CD9- Well, we all know how that ended. Davies has his own issues, and they're not something a coach can really handle.
Olsen's approach to his players seems pretty straightforward: on-field performance determines who starts, not the size of your contract or popularity or fame level. And I'm sure the guys who aren't starting now are working their tails off to break back into the starting 11. If they're not, then that's a good sign that Olsen is making the best choice by benching them.
I also love how Wolff is three times as valuable as Willis and twice as valuable as Hamid!!!!
Not a very useful site.
Actually all the players on DCU are "maybe wishing to leave" Its PURE PURE speculation on your part in terms of any of those guys other than Davies. Najar and Hamid may be wishing to leave, but it wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with Olsen's handling of anything positive or negative.