Post-match: Russia vs. USA: goalkeeping and defense

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Scotty, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Every soccer team needs goalkeepers like Howard.
     
    Deep Wilcox repped this.
  2. Spursfan1

    Spursfan1 Member+

    Sep 7, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except Spain. and Real Madrid.
     
  3. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe, but I'd rather our defense and possession be so good that we can sacrifice a little shot stopping for a lot better possession out of the back.
     
  4. gnk

    gnk Member+

    Nov 1, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, you are right, they do not "need" Iker but luckily for Spain and RM, each has Iker who is every bit the shot stopper Timmay is.
     
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was busy recovering frum a season that represents a huge step backward in his development.
     
    SpencerNY repped this.
  6. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a Crew season ticket holder, I can say he isn't at Nat level right now. The injuries knocked him back and he needs ankle surgery. It affected his play this year, and he sat out some late games for us (must win DC in next to last game). He tried to gut it out, but it affected his mobility. If he comes back healthy next year and is his old self, then maybe, but that is getting pretty late in the cycle.

    Howard was good tonight, but far from the knob slobbing Twellman was laying on him. He did give away the near post on the break-away. Still, overall he was good.

    Thought Cameron, aside from some early bad passes, was pretty good. FBs were pretty solid, though they got caught upfield some, which is going to happen if you depend on them for width.

    Goodson, per usual, played pretty decent and had one bad play that led to a goal.
     
  7. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will criticize Howard on the first goal. He failed to make an aggressive move out of the box, instead choosing to wait back on his goal line and rely on his reflexes. His reflexes are so good that he often makes this gamble, and it doesn't always burn him, but I'd like to see him make the finisher's job more difficult. I'd like to see Howard force the attacker to make a move under pressure, as opposed to be given the opportunity to pick his spot.

    This isn't a huge mistake by Howard, but its not the first time I've noticed it (I'm a GK). Obviously he played a great game overall.
     
  8. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And he gave away the near post, which is the much easier finish. That was poor positioning. Again, I'm not saying he was at fault for the goal, that was Williams, but Howard could have played it better.
     
  9. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd agree he was not "at fault,"- even if he'd played it perfectly, he would have been beaten by a decent finish. the point is that he could have made the finish more difficult. It wasn't so much that he gave the near post- it was that he did not aggressively charge the russian attacker.
     
  10. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I busted Howard a little on the post game thread for being out of position on the first goal.
    Here is the video:
    Watch the action beginning at :45 (this has the entire sequence) . . .
    http://www.ussoccer.com/media-libra...T-vs--Russia--Highlights---Nov--14--2012.aspx
    Certainly, the play begins with Williams trying to play a quick pass and being bumped while doing so by Jozy.

    Howard comes off his line quickly to support the defense (my training was to wait until "decision time" to come). Too regularly, for my taste, he comes off his line too soon (and sometimes this works out for him). When the pass from the center (Kerzhakov) is made to the player on the right(Smolov on Howard's left) Howard has lost track of where the near post is. (Btw, years ago some keepers used to dig a hash mark with their shoe on the 6 yard box to help identify the near post, when they were caught unable to look back, quickly. This was outlawed by a rule change in the late '90's)

    In my opinion, and again this is from the goalkeeper training I received, Howard would have been better off waiting for the play to develop before making his decision to come off of the line. This is most particularly true when there is a 2 v1. In Howard's defense, he may have cheated off his line early hoping to deliberately draw a shot from Kerzhakov and there are certain advantages to coming out early. Regardless, he was out of position when Smolov finishes.
     
    Mr Martin repped this.
  11. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Howard was good.

    Most the rest fall into the rule my parents taught me about "if you can't say something good about somebody...."
     
  12. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    The defense was effected by the formation change in the second half. JK switched his midfield from a pointy to an inverted triangle. by moving JJ a bit more up. In the first half, the defense was fine, the offense was missing. The second half was the opposite. But this is what you get with a slightly less talented squad (Russia had a shitload more talent across the board) - if it doesn't leak in one spot, it leaks in another.
     
  13. braun

    braun Red Card

    Feb 22, 2001
    metro Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt Guzan would have been better.
    Russia is #9 right now. JK is still figuring out who to put on the field, and what they should do when there.
    Howard kept the game close despite 3 shaky central defenders (Williams, Goodson, Cameron).
    Geoff was definitely the better of the three.
     
  14. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    The Russian side is more talented, but not THAT much more talented. And honestly the best player on the field was an American. Two Americans, even. You're talking about $6.50 and $5.75 There is also a rather sizable coherency difference, which I largely chalk up to the very different football upbringings of the Americans (including Germans with American dads) vs the rather homogenous upbringing of the Russians.
     
  15. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The first goal I suppose can be chalked up to "sh*t happens" as someone posted before. I do agree with what Deuteronomy says about coming off the line too early in regards to Howard but that is a spot you don't want to have your GK in to begin with.

    The second goal for me comes under the category of multiple mistakes leading to a goal. First mistake was that no one from the US took responsibility to get in front of the ball to prevent a quick Russia free kick forward which caught US off-guard. Second mistake was Edu being a large step behind everyone else putting the Russian goal scorer onside. Goodson had to think that this guy was offside as he started the play goalside of Goodson. Clay gets a late start on the guy so is not goalside of the Russian and in a weak defensive position. Last mistake was the foul in the box by Goodson. While it appears after the whistle is blown Howard says to Goodson something on the order of "I had it!", I'm not sure that would have been entirely clear to Goodson as the play was happening just yards from the goal. Obviously not good to give up the PK, but the first two mistakes need to be fixed or the US will leak more goals in restart situations.
     
  16. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Howard was still jawing about this (to Goodson) when the game ended - perhaps a good lip reader could (review the tape and) enlighten us. :cool:
     
  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I think John has some sort of physical ailment that kept him from playing for FCD down the stretch.

    There are a lot of centerbacks we could have experimented with in a meaningless friendly like this.

    We have a Euro contingent:Hines, Brooks, Whitbread, ream..........hell, Parkhurst even. And if we're counting Edu as a CB option............then we can count Spector, Packwood, and company as well.

    And before people slap me for suggesting Packwood and Brooks, might I suggest that Klinsmann is willing to call up attacking players like Gyau with less impressive resumes than those two.

    We have an MLS contingent of players with all sort of different experience levels. We could have called up veterans like Marshall. We could have called up up-and-comers like Besler, Berry, Hedges, Okugo, etc.

    Instead it's same-old same-old.

    The only centerback I'm confident in right now is Cameron. Boca, the captain, and Goodson are good backups. Edu is a central midfielder that never plays. But we reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaally need to find a partner for Cameron that we can trust.

    It's possible that Klinsmann decided to take a look at Goodson and Boca now, and will take a look at MLS options in the winter.

    Still, I think USMNT fans are frustrated by a lack of urgency to resolve this problem. Friendlies like this one are exactly the time to experiment. And if we'd tried out some new players...........but lost 3-1, who cares? The game occured at 10 am Eastern Time in Krasnador. Only we were watching in the States. Even a blowout loss would not have had any impact on the program in any way.
     
  18. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Quoted for truth.

    Overall the game was fine and getting to see Gatt, Diskerud, and Agudelo, seeing Altidore back, and seeing Chandler back was all good.

    But this was a FRIENDLY. The time to test things before the Hex is limited. This was a terrific time to test a new CB, even if just in a bit of training and as a 2nd half sub. Obviously Gonzo wasn't available due to the MLS playoffs and he is the top new option. (Although Gonzo could have easily been called in this summer and/or fall when his form was promising and the playoffs had not begun.)

    But why not Hines or Brooks, or Besler? Or try the Edu test again? It was a missed opportunity, an opportunity with ZERO costs. Boca and Goodson are totally known quantities. There was no gain or benefit from them taking up one of the CB spots for 90 minutes. Their performances in the Hex would not be better or worse due to this friendly. But some information (either good or bad) about potential alternatives could have been gained.

    Likewise, I think it was a missed opportunity to give Guzan a run out, just in case the obvious #1 Howard can't play a game or 2 during the Hex. Again, an opportunity to deepen the pool, without any actual cost or danger, was wasted. Those opportunities are exactly what friendlies are for.
     
  19. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suspect JK will tell us that it is more important now to let his chosen defenders gel in game situations. It's easier to throw a young attacker in the mix here to see if they can be an option later as a late game sub. It's not the same with defenders- experience counts a lot more.

    Now, the problem we have is that this select group of defenders just isn't (to my observation) all that good. I think they'd be better with Jones as a 6 (Williams his back-up) and someone like Mix (or even Dempsey or Donovan) playing as a 10. I think Jones would shield the backline better and a better possession player in the midfield would shield the defenders better by relieving pressure.
     
  20. Mario Balotelli

    Mario Balotelli Member+

    United States
    Feb 28, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is there a risk of losing George John to the Greek NT?
     
  21. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Fixed.

    It was an A-friendly and both teams brought their A/A- rosters. It's not like Capello was bringing in the no-hopers either.

    BTW, BS is exhibiting the "backup QB syndrome" again. I think you know what I mean.

    Yes, to their C-team.
     
  22. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    deuteronomy repped this.

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