RSL Re-Entry Draft 2012 thread

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by SoccerPrime, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. kirsoccer

    kirsoccer BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 29, 2007
    This article by Ridge Mahoney (very knowledgable and tight with the RSL organization) indicates that RSL gained $1.2M or so in cap room, but there was at least speculation that RSL entered the offseason $500K over cap (although I'm not sure that this is confirmed). Net those two pieces together and you have something in the $600-$700K range. It doesn't take into account a potential adjustment to Morales' salary, but I also expect Gil will have a cap hit of a couple hundred plus. At best, I'd guess those two would net out.

    My view is a little different than IBIK's - the team needs a starting forward, a 3rd forward AND midfield help. A starting forward is likely going to cost $250K (and potentially a transfer fee). The 3rd forward could come in under $100K, but you need to replace Will and Steele with at least a legitimate first guy off the bench type of player if not a starter (since Morales may not be able to fill a consistent starting role going forward). In my mind, that's $100K-$200K.

    You've also got a 6-player swing so far (9 players out, 3 players in). So in addition to the two forwards and midfielder that I've already suggested, you've got a couple of draft picks ($100K) and another player ($50K).

    So here's the potential math:

    $600K beginning pool
    -250K starting forward
    -100-150K midfielder
    -100K draft picks
    -50K add'l player

    That leaves a $50K - $100K and Lagerwey has already hinted that he'll keep some money available for the summer window which is his philosophy when new players are coming in because he realizes that they might not work out (Escalada, El Khalifi, etc.)
     
  2. MOS5

    MOS5 Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That seems pretty harsh to label him as a "homophobic idiot" based of one incident. I agree that kind of language is disgusting and shouldn't be tolerated. However, I wouldn't mind seeing him in an RSL kit. I like the way he plays, and outside of his one outburst I'll bet he's no worse than Beckerman in the language department (as was previously mentioned).

    As far as it being in his vocabulary, maybe he plays a lot of Call of Duty online where that particular phrase is spewed out every 5 seconds.
     
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  3. Taragui

    Taragui Member+

    Aug 13, 2006
    Northern Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    I tried FIFA13 online twice and the language of some of these people is appalling. I think it's mostly teenage kids from foreign countries that only know a few English phrases they learned from movies or their friends, but it's still grating on the nerves at times. I guess that makes me profanophobic :).
     
  4. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Stage 2, we are no longer into locked into these huge salaries (& let's face it, that's why they haven't been re-signed or picked in stage 1).

    I think Avila can be a good pick up. Corbin Bone from Fire, Freeman, defender Rapids, Wahl too and maybe Clark. Angel is probably the only forward of value, I think Paulo is probably the best on that list. I can see other MLS teams going for him. I wonder if he stays.
     
  5. I_Believe_In_Kreis

    Oct 2, 2006
    on the pitch
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now I'm curious to know if you (a) attended Winterfest this weekend, and (b) if your thoughts have changed at all after hearing Garth speak.

    Tangent for those who missed Winterfest: Garth basically said there are 5 players in line to play the spot vacated by Johnson: Gil, Seba, Viana, Enzo, and Grossman. He basically considers it a numbers game - if current trends hold, two of those five players will succeed, and that makes him very confident. He "feels very good about the midfield." Now I digress....

    Based on that speech, I am even more certain that a midfielder isn't even on RSL's radar right now. Of course, that will all change if Javi leaves. But if he does leave, that also frees up significantly more money.
     
  6. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If those 5 fight for WJ's spot on the left, does that mean Grabavoy has the spot on the right locked up?

    So we might have a diamond formation of Javi, Gil, Grabs & Kyle?
     
  7. SenordrummeR2

    SenordrummeR2 Member+

    Jul 21, 2008
    Layton, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All aboard the slow bus! Sure, they can all possess the ball and pass well, but none of them are very fast (as 15 has pointed out). If we don't get a quick forward to open things up, we may be seeing more of the pointless possession next season.
     
  8. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah this is where I was going. I love these guys, but there is no way a diamond with those 4 is going to tear up MLS in 2013. I thought the point of trading away players and getting under the cap was to improve the team, no? Even with a streaky 2nd forward with Sabo, this midfield is going to rough.
     
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  9. MOS5

    MOS5 Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think the midfield in a diamond formation necessarily needs to have speedy players. Have we ever had players in the midfield that were labeled as "fast"?

    Obviously Javi has lost a step and Grabavoy isn't a speed demon, but I thought the whole point of possession soccer is to advance the group forward as a unit. Speed isn't needed in the midfield, it is needed up top. The more room that the midfield has, the longer they can hold possession in a dangerous position, which means more time for players to fill the attacking third.

    Watching this last season was frustrating at times because we would hit a wall right when we got the ball past midfield. Opposing teams could play higher lines and crowd the middle because we didn't have a speedy threat up top.

    The difference between RSL with Findley, and RSL now is that instead of having two offensive threats (through ball if the defense commits high, and dangerous possession if they respect the speed of Findley), we only have one. It used to be that our opponents had to pick their poison, and now teams just have to shut down a one trick pony.

    We need speed up top. If we do that, I'm content if we fill the midfield with slow as can be Clint Mathises and Andy Williams.
     
  10. Bulldog SLC

    Bulldog SLC Member

    May 4, 2012
    Salt Lake City
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ha ha! I misunderstood your point til the last two paragraphs...I wholeheartedly agree that a little speed will make opposing defenses a little more honest.
    I just watched Garth's Q&A and he mentioned Alvarez out on the side. How about Mansally as an option also? I honestly think he may be the fastest guy on the roster as of right now. I know the ball handling skills wouldn't make him a bona fide threat, but he may be enough to keep defenders honest.
     
  11. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel the last time the midfield really worked effectively when we had Johnson on one side & Williams on the other. Grabs couldn't get it done last year and now we have full faith (not my words) in Gil & Velasquez. I'm not convinced.
     
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  12. SenordrummeR2

    SenordrummeR2 Member+

    Jul 21, 2008
    Layton, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's the thing though. We had Williams and Morales on the field at the same time, so we had two players with excellent field vision and ball control. As 15 has pointed out, this kept teams from purely double teaming Javi. Last year, we didn't have another midfielder that was as dangerous as Javi, so he was double teamed and fouled a lot. Seba looks like he could become that player, but not for another couple of years. Maybe Grabs can fill that void to a degree if he can stay healthy for a season. But that's a big maybe.
     
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  13. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    THIS

    I really want to buy into the hype of Viana and Velasquez, but I seriously doubt they'll be constant starter material next season. Hell, I'm still not convinced Gil is a bona-fide starter for how good this teams midfield needs to be.

    Garth is really rolling the dice on this team's success next year if he thinks he can get away with what we have in the middle. A speedy forward will open up things in the middle, sure, but if you don't have enough talented players in the middle to exploit that space, it's useless. We struggled mightily last year in creating quality chances. We had the ball a lot, we had a fair amount of shots, but we didn't have a lot of clear cut chances that went begging, by any means.

    In my opinion, we lacked vision. We lacked a true Andy Williams/Clint Mathis replacement. You have to have (in the words of Garth) special players to make this thing work. Our midfield, as is currently composed, has former special players and potential future ones. We don't have a guy in the midfield, right now, that gets the ball at his feet and scares the shit out of the other team because he can pick out a lethal pass. Javi was that, Gil could be that, Grabs is occasionally that, and KB isn't utilized in this area, typically.

    Maybe next year Gil lives up to the potential, Velasquez and/or Viana push Grabs out of a spot, and Javi returns to form. MAYBE. This last year, though, would suggest that's a pipe dream. I'm not comfortable with this notion that our midfield is good as currently constructed. We're going to get dominated in the middle of the pitch, in my opinion, if we truly buy into that
     
  14. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

    Jul 5, 2010
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a huge gamble that I hope pays off, but I also feel we need someone in the midfield to help keep pressure off Javi should he stay. Whether it's some additional speed, or a creative guy like Williams, I think we need something.
     
  15. kirsoccer

    kirsoccer BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 29, 2007
    Based on my conversation with Garth immediately after Winterfest I think offseason priorities are as follows (in order): second forward, third forward, attack-minded midfielder. I think you read too much into him trying to pump up the guys he's got (which of course he's going to do in a public setting like that).

    The only question is does the team have the resources to address all of those needs? Although they've loosened the noose, the salary cap may still have a bit of a strangle hold on this team.
     
  16. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope you are right KIR, because this is my fear as well (just like Elf, 15 and Senor etc). I don't feel any of young guns are ready to take over LM from Johnson. I am not comfortable with leaving right midfield to ( I love you Ned but...) Grabs. And Morales, is he the same guy from 2 years ago? Even if he was can he produce with Ned and Luis on the sides of him? Ugh, very frustrated. I guess we need to wait until camp time to really start freaking out.

    So, on topic, we taking anyone on Friday?
     
  17. I_Believe_In_Kreis

    Oct 2, 2006
    on the pitch
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing to remember: Johnson and Grabs almost never played together last year due to injuries and national team duty. One of them was almost always replaced by Steele. So really, it's not so much about one of the young guns replacing Johnson as replacing Steele....and I feel very comfortable about that.
     
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  18. georg

    georg Member+

    May 25, 2009
    Parowan, Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree completely, Steele gone should mean more playing time for our younger midfielders who IMO looked much more creative and effective than Steele ever did. Key really will be Morales and if he stays or goes.
     
  19. I_Believe_In_Kreis

    Oct 2, 2006
    on the pitch
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And if Morales does go (which I don't think he will), that frees up a ton of cap room. He counted $400k against the cap in 2012. Just losing his cap hit moves the needle down as much as the Espy, Olave, or Johnson trades. Morales' departure would leave big shoes to fill, but also leaves behind a ton of coin to fill them with. You can buy a hell of a replacement #10 for $400k.
     
  20. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    key word in this argument is "should".

    What if we bring in some other decent USL player that Kreis places above these young guns? What if we're forced to watch our midfield get ran over by a guy with "great hustle" or "okay defensive presence" because Kreis is so worried about winning now
     
  21. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    which, to me, begs the question why we are so keen on keeping him
    I love Javi as a player, but he had a whole season to show us he recovered and, well, he never really did.

    The number 10, in the style/formation we play, is probably the most important piece of the puzzle. You want this team to change the way it acts/reacts in big games? Probably should look at replacing the keystone, not just the minor ones around it
     
  22. I_Believe_In_Kreis

    Oct 2, 2006
    on the pitch
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because, as a coach/GM, you're always faced with the "devil you know vs. the devil you don't" question. Javi is a known quantity - they know how he fits with the team and within the league.

    Sure RSL could cut him loose and spend $400k on a young hotshot #10 from South America, but there's a lot of risk there, especially when you're tying up that kind of money in one player. He might be a great soccer player who just can't make it work in MLS. How many known quantities did Dallas part with to make room for Denilson? There were a few...and you could argue that the hoops still haven't recovered from that debacle.

    That's the interesting thing about fan psyche when it comes to what I call "the backup QB phenomenon"....we always assume that the guy on the bench (or in this case, the guy who we don't even know) is going to be better than the guy currently on the field.. But the coach/GM at least have to consider what happens if he's not.
     
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  23. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    SL,UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup, there's a reason the saying "the most favorite player on the team is the backup QB" exists, in our eyes we watch a handful of players play for a couple hours a week and we make judgements based upon things we often don't see. I trust the coaching staff knows what they are doing with guys on the bench, it's ********ing frustrating as hell watching a guy like Steele take developmental minutes from Gil, Velasquez and others, though. I don't really think there is a rational explanation for Kreis' love affair with Steele, the guy was just not a good player from a fundamental level on up. He scored a couple early season goals and then did nothing but become a black whole for months.

    As for how this applies to replacing Javi, we don't really have a backup QB sitting in the wings waiting to replace him. It's painfully obvious Gil isn't that player. It's also obvious that Kreis isn't willing to shift tactics to account for that and try a different angle. So we're sticking with the devil we know....instead of a open question mark. There are a lot of questions about how you go about finding a replacement for Javi and how long you can expect that to take (if ever). BUT, it's going to have to happen eventually. I think it's easier for the team in a transitional sense to keep Javi this year while we replace some key players, then next season move on and find a new replacement for him in the form of a brand new player (ie not on the roster now). Go find that next Javi, bring him in and let him loose like we did with the original Javi. This grooming approach the team has taken hasn't worked so far and I'm not sure it will work.
     
  24. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

    Jul 5, 2010
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One good thing about bringing in an unknown, is that teams don't know them and they'd hopefully not be getting hacked in the same manner that Javi does. I really wish the MLS refs would call that crap. Watching the Manchester derby just shows how glaringly bad the MLS refs are in terms of not calling the little hacking BS. That game was full of action against two rivals and also the top 2 of the league. There was very little in the way of hard challenges, and especially all the minor chippiness that you see all over the MLS. I think if refs were to call it more often, we'd have a better side overall because we'd have talented guys like Javi able to actually juke players because they wouldn't just be hitting his ankles because it's allowed.

    It's nice being able to watch some of these other leagues because there's an actual flow to the game because players aren't constantly getting chipped at.
     
  25. kirsoccer

    kirsoccer BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 29, 2007
    Is Steele really the bar you want to measure against? For this team to be a competitor, it needs to have a highly effective midfield. That’s what the team was built upon. That’s also what we saw with Beckerman, Morales, Grabavoy, and Johnson circa 2009/2010. Beckerman is still performing at a high level. Johnson is gone, and Grabavoy and Morales are no longer performing consistently at high levels and have suffered injury issues over the last couple of seasons. So the team finds itself in a position of needing to replace three midfielders either this year or next and get them to perform at a high-level collectively as a group.

    Gil is likely the closest to comparing to that group during that stretch, but probably isn’t quite in that category. He didn’t appear to take a significant step forward this season which is a concern.

    Vasquez had a decent rookie season, but he’s a long way off from performing at that level. Could he develop into that quality of a player? Perhaps.

    Viana is a bit more of an unknown. He played in an underneath forward role in the brief glimpse we caught of him this year, and caught hell from Kreis for dropping to deep on the field. We’ll see how he develops and if he can fit into the team’s system, and compete in this league.

    Grossman appears to be a solid backup player at best. Very underwhelming when I’ve seen him play to this point, but perhaps he’s still developing.
    And Alvarez at a wide spot is a bit of a stretch. They tried that last preseason and it was a disaster.

    So if you want four or five guys that you can throw out into the midfield I think you’ve got them (like you had with Steele), but if your expectations are for RSL’s midfield to return to the dominance it once enjoyed, then you are nowhere close. It all depends on your expectations.
     
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