I agree with IBIK, stoppage time is ridiculous. Because even when they tell you there are going to be 3 minutes, it could go 4 or 5 depending on how the ref feels. To get rid of the argument that you shouldn't stop the game in the middle of a goal scoring opportunity, you work it like rugby. Once the game reaches 90 minutes, the next dead ball means the game is over. If you are winning and you have the ball at 90 minutes you play it out of bounds and the game is over.
Hey, you asked for somebody to time it and I pointed out somebody had and it was 3 minutes. Request fufilled.
Fair enough I get both sides of the argument, so I'm kind of in favor of "if it ain't (too) broke, don't fix it". IMO, stoppage time is the least of soccer's problems. Simulation and bad refereeing are at the top of the list, IMO. Especially in light of last weekend's game, although the stoppage time, while pretty egregious, seems justified. The best part of the game for me was I was not able to catch the first half and I thought we were doing pretty well to start the second, and then Kyle got his awesome goal, and the announcers were all like, "And Salt Lake is playing with 10 men" and I was not aware of that. I thought, "Wow, we're playing pretty well for being down a man." All told, like Coach Kreis, I'm very proud of the team and impressed with the way they rose to the challenges the second half/ref presented them.
ya, pretty much confirms what i think about SJ fans now. lenhart is a douche bag with no skill, a guy who i would OPENLY boo if he was on my own team. i have no respect for the guy and the way he plays. this is a shoddy comparison, but i know people hate kyle beckerman on other teams. i have read as much many times before. but people respect him and his work, he is a technically skilled player. people hate him, but if he was on their team they wouldnt. this isnt the case with lenhart. people hate him and nobody wants that guy on their team. the fact that SJ fans even think he skilled beyond being a physical brute who trashes the game is....enlightening....about the intelligence of that fan base. as for the merits of stoppage time, we've argued it before many times. we've argued the way its done in college with a center official controlled clock. we've talked about changing it, leaving it the same etc etc. both sides have positives and negatives, in the end nothing is going to change. the whole idea of stoppage time to me is kind of pointless, especially since the length of stoppage can actually increase as the stoppage is played. nevermind the fact that if you actually did an analysis of the amount of time that SHOULD be added to every game, it would be significantly longer than what the officials actually added.
The most time I have ever seen was 8 minutes vs Arabe Unido. In actually, there was probably about 20 minutes of stoppage time in that match. There are AU players down being stretchered off every minute for the last 30 minutes of the match. This match was no where near that bad. They just wanted tom make sure the SJ got the win after being up 2 men, and not scoring. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6zCsRRCXiU"]Stretchers - YouTube[/ame]
and I'm submitting another we all know the (justified) fear of introducing a clock that actually stops in soccer - commercials. If FIFA were to bend (it ain't happening) to allowing a stopping clock, the game would lose a lot of its beauty. Part of that beauty being it's flaws
I agree. I would hate to see the beautiful game sullied by instant replays and whatnot. Just my opinion.
Do you seriously believe that or are you just laying the hyperbole on a little thick? If your assertion is correct, the ref would have blown the whistle on the ensuing kick off after the winning goal and not kept the game going for yet another goal to be scored. And now on a serious note, and trying to not pick a fight or anything, this was arguably not the best reffed game, but do you think that this is the first time a team has benefited from questionable calls? Chances are that RSL has had a little help from the ref on a game or two in the past and may very well be the beneficiary in some future game this season. If the SJ reaction is immature in your view, maybe they are just giddy at the fact that (finally) some calls have gone their way. Last week in NY the calls certainly did not, and that result also had an effect on RSL and the standings- a red card (on Marquez for his foul on Salinas in the box) and a PK because of it might have tipped the game in SJ's favor. Blame the refs all you want, criticize players for their antics, but so much vitriol? One shouldn't hold the fans' emotions against them. They are probably happy their team is playing 1000% better than last year and see things through blue tinted glasses. I'm pretty sure some of your loyal fans also look at things through claret (?) colored lenses as well.
I don't see a stopping clock automatically leading to commercials. Other sports have a stopped clock and they don't go to commercials during every stoppage. College soccer doesn't go to commercials during regular stops in play. If I can attempt to speak for you for a moment, what you really don't want to see are timeouts (TV or team). Those are what allow TV to go to commercial because timeouts last a pre-specified time. TV won't go to commercial during a fake injury because they don't know how long it will last. I agree that a stopped clock increases the likelihood of eventually having timeouts, but if soccer could find that sweet spot where there's an actual known game time but no timeouts, there would be a lot less controversy like the one we're wrapped up in today.
That's more or less how it works after 90 plus what the 4th official indicated... It just doesn't have to go out of bounds but rather the current scoring opportunity (if there is one) ends.
On the clock thing... I don't really see this as something that needs changing. I've never had a hard time knowing when the game is going to end (within 10-30 seconds) depending on the last "play" (so to speak). The only annoying thing is that the stadium clock stops at 90 min. Just show it like they do on TV and then it's not rocket science. You'll know within 10 seconds of the minute indicated or when the next scoring sequence ends. If some clown laid down for 2 of the 3 minutes there will be another minute or two... doesn't seem that tricky to me.
I believe it was after RSL complained about the ref blowing the whistle at 2:15 with 3 minutes of stoppage time in I believe 2008 at Toronto, the league made it a rule that teams can't have a running clock in the stadium counting stoppage time.
Well, I did go read it. I thought maybe your intelligent fans were at the game and hadn't had a chance to respond on game night. Apparently I was wrong. I have been giving San Jose fans too much credit. The fans I knew in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and early 2000's have apparently disappeared and been replaced by the current delusional bunch. How disappointing. It looks like 95% of the fanbase according to that little survey feel that Lenhart is some kind of great player, and that anything that happens is something that San Jose has somehow earned over calls that happened in previous games. The fact that somebody there is honestly claiming that RSL fans said that San Jose fans should just take it from the Sabo call last year, and this was "payback" are either delusional or just idiots. I didn't see one RSL fan who stuck up for Sabo. Yet seemingly all stand up for Lenhart. Much different views of the situations. I was embarrassed for RSL, for Sabo for being that kind of player, for Jason Kreis for having to try to explain that situation when he clearly felt his own player was in the wrong (and said so in public) and so on. I haven't heard it from more than 2 guys on your thread over there, and have yet to hear Frank Yallop stand up and say he'd rather win without a guy flopping around like a fish. San Jose was always seen as a super classy fan base and organization. Unfortunately that just went right out the window, and the levels of hypocrisy are hilarious. SJ fans claim it's ok for them to act like that because they think RSL fans are WORSE, so they can say whatever they want and all calls they get are somehow payback calls and they've earned them over years of somehow getting screwed over (although, the fact was they really just sucked for many years... when RSL gets a call their way now I don't feel entitled to it because they were a godawful team for their first several seasons.... I still feel that it was a BAD CALL). Unfortunate. Down another peg. Oh well.
Two totally different situations. With Sabo last year, he was not touched by anyone AT ALL and proceeded to do his best superkman imitation. A dive by any definition. With Lenhart and Olave on Saturday, there was significant contact between both players, and both players went down. Not a dive. If you insist that Lenhart dove, by the same logic I could make the same assertion that Olave dove. The both banged into each other and both went down. Now, you could argue who fouled whom...but nobody dove.
I think you should go back and review the thread from last year's game. There were a lot of RSL fans who stuck their big buts in that thread. Many posts were along the lines of Sabo dove, but... and Bad call, but... -- I didn't know RSL fans had such big buts. Thank you, I'll be here all week.
I pointed out the thread just as evidence that not everyone in Quake land appreciates everything that he does for us. Just want to point out that the purpose of the Lenny thread is not specific to the Salt Lake game & the red card issue. therefore, we SJ posters are not just commenting about a single play / single game. We're attempting to comment based on taking Lenny's entire work with San Jose over the course of 2011-present. Out!
Dadof6 had the best explanation of this. Olave caught up with Lenhart because Olave is a lot faster than Lenhart, that's the plain and simple truth. Lenhart realized this and leaned into Olave's path and stuck his arm across Olave, initiating the contact. Then he grabbed Olave's shorts and toppled over. Well it worked and the ref, who was behind the play, bought it hook line and sinker. Anyone who knows Olave knows he's one of the fastest CBs in the league and is very capable of chasing down attackers. Lenhart knew it too and his only chance was to try and draw a foul.
Nah, they were both very similar, because they were both cheating flops. More similarity than difference. Lenhart was ahead at 40 yards, got caught at about 35 yards out by Olave and decided to seemingly attempt to grab his junk at 30 yards, and then at about 25 he flew on to the ground when he realized he was beaten even as he was trying to remove a man's pants in the process. Those Quakes fans who claim that Olave "clearly pushed him in the back" have been spending too much time at Berkley smoking the wacky tabacky. Lenhart got caught, had no chance, grabbed Olave's shorts and refused to let go and then jumped on the ground like a 5 year old girl. Watch the replay. Pretty simple to see what happened. Olave "banged into the guy" only if it was because Lenhart yanked his plank and pulled him into him to have an excuse to fall down on the turf. It was a pathetic play by him. He got outrun and fell down. Reminds me of kids I played soccer with in youth leagues. Anytime you ran them down they'd fall over immediately and hope for a foul call because they were embarrassed for being outrun. To see a full grown adult do it is something that I'd be embarrassed about as a fan, but again... I'm not a SJ fan. Not at all. Not anymore anyway. They have their reasons for loving Lenhart. That speaks pretty poorly of the quality of player you're producing. It reminds me of people who would cheer Bill Laimbeer. I was a Detroit Piston fan at one point and gave up on the team after watching that big cheating bitch pull the same garbage. It was unwatchable. Steven Lenhart is also unwatchable. The MLS is unwatchable when they don't figure out that Lenhart is a big turkey that makes a living pulling those stunts. The difference between him and Sabo? Sabo did it... got caught, haven't seen him do it again. Lenhart... he's been pulling this shiz for what? 5 years straight? Enough already.
Not according to Quakes fans. There are some literally claiming Lenhart is the fastest player in the league. Hahahaha. Olave caught up with him in 3 STEPS. And the only thing that kept them even and prevented Olave from jumping in front of him and stopping the play cold was the fact that Lenhart had a firm grasp of mini-Jamison and refused to let go.
The only 'significant contact' was Lenhart tugging the shorts while swinging his leg outward kicking Olave then going down.
That post Jasonma shared from the ref's forum - I appreciate that by the way, it's a helpful discussion point - is utter garbage. If even a majority of games had time added on even partially like that, there would almost never be less than six minutes. Good grief. I don't object to the six minutes. I was disappointed in them for purely personal reasons, and not because I couldn't imagine their being that many. But that method for accounting for time? Is the suggestion that there should have been 10 minutes, plus added time for the SJE goals in stoppage - so at least 12 minutes? What 15 to 32 said, and give me a break.
you're barking up the wrong tree with a post like this in this forum why in the hell should we feel sympathy for your team? cheating is cheating. y'all claimed that when you bitched and moaned about Sabo. Don't pull the "well we sucked before so you should just feel sorry for us" routine. If you want to talk about sucking, go look at our first few years of existence.