Wow. Um, that's not my memory of the mood at BigSoccer in October 2009. There were quite a lot of questions about qualifying for the World Cup. Don't forget that Dempsey got hurt right before the Honduras game and couldn't play, and oh by the way there were serious team-safety concerns because of the major political unrest that Honduras had at the time. Some reading: https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/usa-honduras-r.1198344/ https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...on-honduras-game-also-who-will-score.1190414/
We could take maximum points and be outscoring people 3-0 every game and there would still be some people freaking out. It is what it is. Qualification is a long process, road games are EXTREMELY difficult, and teams are going to have their ups and downs. If you've put yourself in a good position to automatically qualify (in the top 3 spots) with 2 games left in the hex and you go out and execute in those 2 games, then you've done a good job. There is still plenty of time after that to tweak the squad and set yourself up to peak at the World Cup.
Oh yeah?! Well, I went and looked at Voros's simulations with 2 games left in the hex back in 2009, and you know what? http://vorosmccracken.com/?p=139#more-139 At that time, the USA had a 96.95% chance of qualifying! Which, um, pretty much supports your point and invalidates my point. I could quibble about 3.05% chance of failure being a little more than "no question of if it could qualify", but that would be splitting hairs. Curse my devotion to scientific ethics, specifically the obligation to report all results, positive or negative.
Usually, much to my displeasure, I'd agree. I don't see it happening any more. If JK denies Jozy's form this camp then I'm going to stop defending JK altogether.
If you're constantly subverting long-term progress to short-term results why bother? We just played a dreadful game against Canada where a DM/FB played in the #10 position. It was a friendly, the result didn't matter. Some have argued, based on his quotes, that JK put players on the field in service of the squad for Honduras. So why the charade? Are we suddenly going to try to play an organized, fluid, skillful, attacking game against World Cup opponents? Or are they going to be relegated to rare middle of nowhere friendlies against middling opposition like Scotland? Are we going to start one player capable of pulling the strings in midfield or always stick to 3 DMs? Is the poor man's Claudio Marchisio, Graham Zusi, going to be the only new "attacking" player that Klinsmann works into the team this cycle? Is he going to continue to find a new holding mid and try to turn them into a ten or be satisfied with all the DMs he's played out on the right? If we're going to play defensive or two-way players in wide positions why not use the ones who are actually, you know, capable of wing play? There's a damn good chance that Johnson and Chandler are the 3rd and 4th best attackers in this squad, put them closer to the goal. I'll give JK credit for making the team look to play it out of the back, but there's been little progress elsewhere. As long as he continues to put square pegs in round holes and then throw out all his stated ideals when that fails so will our efforts to reach the next level.
Now the real work begins, that said, I don't like the midfield Jurgen has chosen for the trip to Honduras. Who is the midfield anchor? Who will be the conduit from the back to the front? I don't envision any creativity from this bunch; playing away, we need muscle & steel, but we also have to attack, we don't have to attack with flair, but we must and from what he's chosen I don't see who will be the centerpiece in the middle of the park; the player he expects to put his foot on the ball, when necessary I can envision Altidore & Dempsey playing too far from the goal, and thus retarding OUR attack, for lack of distribution from this group. I'm hoping for the best, but I can't envision anything better than a draw from the upcoming match,
Fabian and Chandler play rarely in midfield for their clubs, so I don't expect them to be put there by JK? Yes, Zusi scored once, which isn't a reason to use him as a starter vs Honduras. Figure that if JK is using 3 CMs, then Dempsey will line up as a #10 behind Altidore and Gomez, or EJ.
Bolivianfuego said: ↑ I have a feeling Gomez starts over Jozy. I think one starts and then is subbed out by the other around 60'. I could see Jozy starting except for the expected game time conditions ( 97 deg heat index). Jozy being a big dude and playing in Holland might not fare as well in the heat as Herc. Just a consideration and I'm sure one Klinsmann is checking out during their brief training in Miami.
Certainly, it would be great fun to see them both and Eddie Johnson also, with all of our best attacking options and guns blazing. Unfortunately, a result, even a tie is critical. We will probably go with a very defensive lineup. I agree, and will be a bit surprised if we see more than one of them on the field at a time. My preference would be to start the battering ram, Altidore, and bring Herc in at some point in the second half.
They play wide in midfield more often than Williams, or Jones, or Bradley, or Torres, or Kljestan, or EJ. Even then they're simply more suited to playing wide because they are (drumroll please) wide players who are skilled at running past defenders and putting balls into the box. Dempsey could play from that position but he should function as a false 10 who bursts into the space between the opposition DMs and CBs. I'd be in favor of this especially because Jozy likes to cut in from the left and Gomez is used to operating from the right and having them attack from wider starting positions than typical STs would stretch out the Honduras backline and open up that central space for Dempsey to float in (or the opposite happens and Dempsey gets all the focus and gaps open up between the CBs and FBs that the 2 forwards could exploit). No matter who we start though we don't have a guy on the roster who can pop up in-between the lines, direct traffic, and set others up. Dempsey can do a little of this in the final third but he's not a reliable creator for others. Mike can do some of the tempo setting and Williams is a good circulator from side to side but when trying to advance the ball, especially against an organized D, we're threadbare.
Emphasis mine to set up my question for you: do you believe that we do have (or could have) such players, but they are not on this roster? Or that we lack such players overall? Just curious where you fall on this point.
Plus Gomez' workrate makes him the candidate to wear out both himself, and the opposition for Jozy's fresh legs.
I can see this as well and believe Jozy does better as a starter than sub. Will be interesting to see what JK does and how it works.
I know that there are a lot of qualifications and uncertainties in this statement, but I just want to say that I am really excited at the prospect of having a solid backline in the making. Johnson has always seemed like he could play for many top teams in the world, Chandler is not in his natural position but has seemed like he could one day at least match Cherundolo, Cameron always seems to be getting better, and if Gonzalez finds his form again, he is also formidable. Amidst all the fears, I look forward to seeing these guys developing and working together.
It seems that emphasizing anxiety as to the unknown quality of the current squad, heading to Honduras, relative to the more sure understanding of what we were about in the clinching stages of qualifying last time, touches a sore point among a surprising number of posters [surprising to me]. Did not see that coming..... Anyway, let me address your above points. [1] My post was not concerned with the psychological state of Big Soccer, then vs now, but with the level of uncertainty/anxiousness, for a Honduras match, of the american soccer scene in general. I remember both nervousness but also anticipation at nailing down a berth. What the team was made of was pretty well understood by then, and any anxiety was the more natural kind that arises in anticipating a "big match". [2] Well, you may have had a lot of questions, but the USA was in a position to clinch a berth in that match. Overall, the odds of qualifying during the Hex looked pretty damn good by then. [3] True, and how does that compare to now, with our missing Donovan and undergoing upheaval both as to our defense and as to exactly how our team is seeking to play the game? The uncertainty, for this match, is simply much greater than it was for then. [4] I was referring to our qualifying, and to how we could expect our team to play the game. The vapors that might have struck BS at the existence of the big bad world in which football must be played was irrelevant to me. Look, the simple point is this: By then, the picture was quite clear and the fact of our qualifying was almost set in stone. What the team was [for worse or for better], had been hashed out by years of seeing it settle down into whatever you want to call the style Bradley got the team to stick to. No surprises. Now? It all feels like a crapshoot. As we enter the Hex, what the team is capable of, and how it will play to best bring out its potential, and who really are the players that best represent JK's "vision" is not clear, at all. Hence huge room for surprise, as we go to the Honduras match, and ample play for anxiety as to what sort of surprises may lie ahead. So, yeah, as far as I can feel this Honduras match kinda supercedes the last go round in its power to conjure up anxious anticipation. But if you're not anxious, well, as a fine fake Harvard Cherokee US Senator from the grand state of Massachusetts would put it "Well, Good For You!"
There's not one player who really stands out, it has to be about infusing those skills throughout the team. Donovan is the biggest difference maker missing but he's shown he needs help. Outside of LD there's Holden, Feilhaber, and Mix who bring those skills to varying degrees. On the team Bradley brings some of these qualities along with Torres. Up front Dempsey, Altidore, and Agudelo are suited to that style of play.
The US really needed an extra dose of speed, not to mention skill, in SPS. That was obvious from the Canada match too, btw.