Strange cause both Laudrup and Stoichkov were substitutes throughout 93/94 season except for UCL games. Romario had more La Liga caps them both. Don;t trust these data too much. Take it with a pinch of salt. I'm sure if you keep looking you'l find another independent data somewhere else with a listing of an order totally reversed.
People lets start a new debate, cause I had enough of both Romario and Ronaldo. A debate that ended in circles anyway. Attacking midfielders Maradon vs Zidane vs Cruyff vs Defenders(when are we going to give defenders a chance?) Maldini vs Baresi vs Frank Rijkaard vs ANY SUGGESTIONS???????? come lets start a fresh one!
Stoichkov was a sure starter for Barca during those times, him, Guardiolan and Koeman are the emblematic players during Barca's run of four La Ligas and two CL finals, winning one, throught the early 90s.
Yeah remember now. back then there was a restriction on more then 3 foreign players playing at once on the pitch in Spain. So there was a constant swap between Laudrup, Stoickov and Koeman. However, I watched this documentary interviewing Johan Cruyff and he stated that when Romario came in 1993 he won the battle for starting lineup from the getgo due to his excelent pre-season 14 goals in 14 caps. So for that single season 93/94 of the Dream Team Romario was a regular (the main man) in La Liga matches and laudrup and Stoichkov got more time to play in UCL matches mainly. You can see on youtube most of the La Liga 93/94 matches had Romario as starting lineup with Laudrup, Koeman and Stoichkov substituting one another regularly. Remember Romario came at the last Dream Team season. Before that Stoichkov, Laudrup and Koeman were the foreign main players as starters.
Well, bobby charlton has got impressive stats to make him a tough competitor among the classics. Why not start a football "classics" debate. The old breed!
If you don't even know how anyone could say Romario with a straight face, it's because you've obviously never seen Romario or because you don't understand football. Choosing Ronaldo over Romario is understandable; however, claiming that Ronaldo is clearly superior is ridiculous.
I'm sorry to say it, but I personally find that your argument here is nothing but pure propaganda: sorry, but it is.... 1 -- The media in Romario's time is nothing compared to the media of Ronaldo's time. 2 - Ronaldo was more marketable due to obvious reasons: Ronaldo was a more impressive player, bigger and faster, than Romario. 3 - Romario was a pain in the ass for managers.... Ronaldo was not. 4 - Romario was in fact compared to Maradona, and it happened more than once too.... I know this because I just watched a match of Barcelona with English commentaries, and the English commentator compared Romario with Maradona on various occasions; why do you say that Romario was never compared to Maradona?? How do you know such things?? And if what you say is true, then how in the hell did I hear an English commentator compare him with Maradona on more than just one occasion? It makes me have doubts about your sincerity, as I am certainly not making something up. At the end of the day, Ronaldo never was better than Romario; as a matter of fact, there were a couple of games that I watched in which Simeone (an Argentine defensive midfielder of regular technique, who played with Ronaldo at Inter) scored much better goals than Ronaldo himself. This never happened with Romario, at least not as far as I know. Am I saying that Romario is better than Ronaldo? No. I'm merely saying that Ronaldo was never better than Romario, let alone "clearly" better than Ronaldo; I have no idea about your sources, and I find that most of your arguments are not objective because most of the time it seems to me like you are trying to justify your own opinion with false facts and false statements (such as when you mentioned that Romario was never compared with Maradona; not true). Ronaldo was not clearly better than Romario. And if.... Ronaldo was such a "big game scorer" type player.... Then how in the hell was Ronaldo the worst Inter player when Inter played the UEFA Cup final in season 1997/1998?? Ronaldo was without doubt the worst Inter player on the night, was almost completely anonymous the entire 90 minutes, and to top it all off scored an off-side goal which most certainly should've been disallowed. If Ronaldo was such a "big game scorer" type player.... how in the hell did he only managed to win about one La Liga trophy (in four years was it?) with a star-studded Real Madrid?? How many Champions Leagues did he win? For such a "big game scorer" player, he certainly did not win many "big trophies" with Real Madrid. You think that Ronaldo was clearly better than Romario: fair enough.... but please don't try to push your opinion as if it was a certified fact. For the record, I watched over 12 matches of Ronaldo playing with Inter during season 1997/1998, in all the games I watched Ronaldo played as a striker, I have never seen Ronaldo playing as a "nine and a half" ~ I'm not saying Ronaldo never played as a "nine and a half", I'm just saying that I never once watched him play such a role in over 900 minutes of play.
You already understand why I think he's better. His results are superior to Romario, thus making him the easy choice. Being the "best" in something like football is really subjective so I have to go by the results.
Yesterday a very extensive documentary about Romario his PSV years was on public television (because PSV exists 100 years). Many of the things are already known and have been posted on this board (like the fractious relationship with Bobby Robson). Funny is how PSV signed Romario, which is a true story. PSV was interested in signing Marc Degryse from Club Brugge, because PSV needed a forward. However, Brugge did not want to sell him until they found a replacement. They were busy with an "exotic surprise" but refused to tell to PSV who it was. One of the delegates was manager Ploegsma ('manager' is a different job as the British type of 'manager'). He went back to home and told his son "sorry, no replacement today." He told him about that exotic surprise. At the same time the Olympic Games were going on and his son said at the dinner table "maybe it is Romario." And that is how it started. The exotic surprise of Brugge was Frank Farina. Guus Hiddink said in the documentary: "If you take a benchmark, which is Messi today, then Romario was not far below." Really? "Yes, think so."
I have played in Holland since I was a kid and still am playing descent local adult amateur football, and I can spot a good play when I see one. Any football connoisseur who'd seen both Romario and Ronaldo at their respective WC would reckon that Romario had higher stakes and odds against him. WC94 squad was a lot weaker (by a large margin), in fact it was the weakest and least popular squad in brazilian football history! They even faced the chance of missing out the WC completely during poor qualifiers. Players: Romario (the only true star of the squad!), Bebeto, Dunga, Rai, Mauro Silva, Mazinho, Ricardo Rocha. Most of these players were averaged at best! Opponents: Russia, Holland, Sweden, Cameroon, Italy! Bear in mind, all these countries produced moderately good to top class football back in 1994. WC02 squad was one of the strongest in world football history! Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Robinho, Lucio, Cafu, the list goes on! All of them top tier super stars! Opponents: Turkey, China, Costa Rica, England, Germany. Not one of these squad produced any good football back in 2002. Not even Germany or England. And look at the list again, Costa Rica, China? I mean give me a break! BIG GAMES???? Romario had 80% involvement in all victories for Brazil from the last (and crucial) qualifier game against Uruguai to all the friendlies (the build up to WC) and all stages of the WC94. He was directly responsible for all goals scored and when he did not score himself he was the main assist! Not one single "tap in" goal to be seen here. On the contrary to the above, almost all of Ronaldo's goals (incl. final) he waited for the ball then tapped it in! He didn't produce the same level of performance as Romario did in WC94, no way! I watched all of the WC94 games(incl. qualifiers vs Uruguai 1993) back to back and those of WC02 games. I can assure you that without Romario Brazil wouldn't have even qualified for the WC94, let alone win it. If you leave Ronaldo's goals out of WC02, Brazil, would have still reached the finals with Rivaldo's, Ronaldinho's goals alone.
What result mate? Some stats: Romario in two decades: 5x times league champion (Erediviesie, La Liga, Brasileirao), 6x times league top scorer (same leagues as before), 2 x times UCL top scorer, 1x times WC champion (single handed), 1x times copa america champion, Summer olympics silver medalist(top scorer), 1x UCL finals! Ronaldo in two decades: 1x times league champion (La Liga), 2x times top scorer (Eredivisie, La Liga), 1x times WC + 1x times WC finalist, 2x times copa america champion, summer olympics brons medalist, not even reached UCL semifinals ever! So, again mate, what results are you talking about? I mean, in terms of football achievements on the pitch. Other then general popularity among fans and media, I can't see anything that Ronaldo has done that Romario hasn't. In fact you can look up for stats (results) yourself and if you pay attention you will notice that Romario even achieved more, as you can see my above listed stats speaks for it self.
Didn't they mention how PSV beat Napoli and Real Madrid for the bit for contracting him? I guess you missed that one out. There were big clubs in Europe lining up to contract him but it was Guus Hiddink (scout and coach) who quickly went to Rio to meet him in person. There are pictures(black and white) of him and Hiddink shaking hands in Rio. It was a last minute close call. People seem to forget that back then in 1988, PSV was Europe best club, having won the Champions league in 1988 with Ronald Koeman's free kick! So, it isn't hard to believe why Romario opted for Holland instead of Spain or Italy. The choice was there but PSV offered the most $$$$$ and was quick with the bit. Football has changed but not my memories!
You forgot to mention that romario was a beach soccer champion with brazil and scored six goals in the beach world cup tournament.
Yes, they were not the best or most beloved Brazilian side ever, but lets not exaggerate it either. Nobody at the level of Romario, thats true. But there were some top quality guys there. They were defesnsively very solid, so they did not suffer the loss of Rocha at all, but I understand he was a fantastic defender (he is very highly regarded within Brazil, were he was extremely consistent always). And Raí performed badly, but he was a star in those days. Then you have a rock solid defensive midfielder in Mauro Silva and a guy like Bebeto, star of the 1989 Copa America, individually awarded and pretty well rated himself. Partnered very well with Romario in the Brazilian front line. Look at what happened to Depor once these two (Bebeto and Mauro Silva) joined... Dont forget Jorginho. Some (for what I have learned from a couple of Brazilian guys over in XT) consider him superior to Cafú and he was outstanding in 1994. Sure they were not a typical attacking Brazilian side and Romario was remarkable for them (except in the very final), but "average at best" is overstating it IMO. This team had indeed way superior offensive prowess to the one of 1994. But dont forget that Ronaldo's outstanding effectiveness was a big part of it. But it is true, I agree that the rivals they faced were of lower level than those of the 1994 team. Hoever, Robinho was not part of that team and Kaká was not a relevant part of it. Could mention Roberto Carlos, though. You are perhaps right in what you say. But in the final of 1994 Romario was shut down by an aged Baresi that had even missed some action due to injury, while in the final of 2002 Ronaldo scored two goals. If anybody brought up "big games" I think it probably refers to that. Perhaps you are right with what you say about Ronaldo, perhaps you are not. Clearly, Ronaldo had superior support in attack in 2002 than Romario did in 1994. But imo you are exaggerating again saying that without Romario Brazil would not have even qualified for the WC. Although they had a couple of bad results in the beginning, that Brazil managed to score 18 goals in 7 games (4 wins, two draws and 1 loss) without Romario in those qualifiers. One of the draws was agianst Uruguay in Montevideo. With Brazil having scored 12 goals in the last three games prior to the last match against Uruguay in Rio, the only one Romario played, it is not impossible to think (if anything, all the opposite) that they could have won it even without him to ensure the qualification. Just my opinion.
I believe Koeman remains the only player to have scored from a fk in two different EC/CL finals. You are right that Brazilian side had some great players besides Romario, particularly Bebeto, M Silva Aldair, Leonardo and Jorginho, but they also had some awful donkeys: Zinho, Mazinho (that's half their midfield), Marcio Santos, and a Branco who was past his prime and slow as a snail. PS: I have to agree on Jorginho. I would take him anytime over Cafu, and his performance in WC94 is possibly the best by a right-back since I've watched futebol. The only advantage Cafu has is being more durable, only after Jorginho suffered a major injury in 97 at age 32 was Cafu able to start for the Selecao. Romario went against Baresi, Maldini, Benarrivo, Costacurta, and Albertini for Italy's defensive line in WC94. Other than Oliver Kahn, none of the defensive players in the German team of WC02 is worth writing about. Nevertheless, it's not so clear that Brazil would have won the match against a resurgent Uruguay in Rio. A loss would have actually eliminated them.
They mentioned the interest of Benfica, Real Madrid and FC Porto, I think. That's what I was able to find back in the archives. It is also known that when the plane of PSV departed, the plane of FC Barcelona (with Cruijff etc.) arrived. Those were too late. And no, PSV didn't win the European Cup with a Koeman free kick.
A story about the Robson-Romario relationship: Robson glued on a whiteboard a picture of Pelé and said "on one day you are Pelé, you think you are Pelé". A then team-mate of Romario said: "You should in any case not do that with Brazilians. Compare local heroes with each other, because they perceive themselves - of course - as the best. That was major mistake number one [by Robson]. And on a different page Robson clarified with pictures and gestures that he [Romario] was 'Mickey Mouse' on a other day. A silence fell down in the room for some while, obviously. Robson held the supposition that it was a funny joke. It turned out to be a major blow and prelude for the further collaboration between Romario and Robson."
Not sure to count Zinho among the awful donkeys, seems to have been very consistent and among the best performers of the Brasileirao at the time. He was obviously no Rivaldo or Ronaldinho either, of course. Thats true. They had only conceded a single goal up to the final, though. Well, I didnt say anything was clear. But looking back you have this "resurgent" Uruguay, that barely managed to beat Bolivia at home in their last game before facing Brazil in Rio. Their match in Montevideo had been a draw... Brazil was a scoring machine (so, would it really be fair to say they "needed" Romario's scoring prowess at all?) and had home advantage. Between "no way they would have qualified without Romario" and "it is not impossible to think (if anything, all the opposite) that they could have won it even without him", I definitely take the second statement.
A few FACTS that I need to clarify: 1_ I am not just a Ronaldos fan but also a Romario's fan. So all my comments are based on FACTS, nothing like "personal" nor " biased opinion". 2- People kept on saying Ronaldo had got better support at WC02 than Romario's 94, true, BUT they FORGOT te FACT: the same team with Romario (instead of Ronaldo in hospital) nearly FELL out of the WD02 qual ... 3- I never said Romario was not a big games player. He was. BUt Ronaldo was a better in big games *at least by STATS. People also FORGOT the FACT; Romario failed to score at the 2 BIGGEST FINALS in football: WC94 and UCL94 ... 4- Ronaldo's season 97 was "phenomenal" season. Much betetr than Romarios' 94 with the "dream team" . People FORGOT that he score 47goals/49games for Barca that season (so his 3 pks' were just plain EXCUSE) One had to look further than that. 5-FACT: Ronaldo left 4 records in liga (most goals per season, most goal per liga season, most scored teams ...) which were all broken by Messi from 12 to 13. Romario NEVER set any record for Barca nor liga like Ronaldo.
I'm not sure if that full game can be found online, but I remember that match very well, and that night Uruguay looked hopeless. It was one-way traffic for Brazil. If it were not for Robert Siboldi's saves, Brazil should have won by an historical margin, especially in the first half. The visiting side never attacked once! Francescoli, Ruben Sosa and Fonseca - all fine players - never put Brazil in peril. To tell you that the most nervous moment for Brazil was when Taffarel misjudged a backpass, or loose ball, but other than that, Brazil was never in danger. Brazil struggled only in the first half of the qualifiers (all road games) but then at home in the second half, they pretty much steamrolled over their opponents. Uruguay was unconvincing overall throughout.
Yes, that's also how I remember it. The match could have been over in the first half, with Bebeto crashing a free kick in the post and then doing an outrageous flip kick that somehow did not go in. Francescoli was rather muted that match, only Fonseca looked like he could do something.
You´re right, Brazil was clearly better than Uruguay in that match, the team would have qualified without Romário. However, at the WC, I think Brazil without Romário would have had a sad destiny. Brazil 94 was very solid in defense, but offensively poor for the brazilians standards. Look at the numbers in WCs: Brazil94 scored 11 goals. Romário scored 5, gave 2 assists and produced a penalty. He was directly involved on 72% of Brazil´s goals. Brazil98 scored 14 goals. Ronaldo scored 4 (1PK) and gave 3 assists. He was directly involved on 50% of Brazil´s goals. Brazil2002 scored 18 goals. Ronaldo scored 8 and produced a penalty kick. He was direclty involved on 50% of Brazil´s goals. So, for Ronaldo, we can say he delivered in 2 WCs, few legends have this mark. For Romário, we can say he won a WC in tougher conditions, because his generation wasn´t blessed with many offensive talents like Pelé´s, Zico´s or Ronaldo´s generation.
About the final game in WC94, Italy parked the bus and that was a great defense. Brazil only had 2 clear chances, missed by Romário and Bebeto. On the other hand, Germany2002 gave some good spaces for Brazil. Ronaldo himself had 5 chances and Kahn had some good saves in first half. On the second half, he was betrayed by Rivaldo ´s shot and Ronaldo made a nice finish in the second goal. Look at 1:05 , 2:00, 2:47, 3:58 (first goal) and 5:04 (second goal) And Romário vs Italy