Rodger that, over and out - OTT [R]

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by pgr17, Jan 29, 2013.

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  1. Umar

    Umar Member+

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    If they wanted him they would have taken him over the summer. He is not an unknown entity, and they haven't only just realised that he is a good keeper who is slightly past his peak and won't be back to his Inter best. One decent performance won't change that. He is even older now, so I doubt there'll be a move for him or a fee paid for him by a big club.


  2. Futbol_Head

    Futbol_Head Member

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    It'll be a travesty of Kei Kamara plays in the Premier League before Graham Zusi...
  3. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    I dont know. What age did we get VDS? If Cesar could play like this for another three to four years (not uncommon for a GK) it could be worth it. yes he was not an unknown but it might have been risky for us to try to bring him in. now that someone already took the risk we might benefit from it.

    Note: I am not saying that I beleive the story, or that we should go for him, just that if you let your mind linger over it for a minute without being close minded, it might not be so far fetched. could even be an astute move...
  4. Umar

    Umar Member+

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    If you get him, it's either to get rid of Lindegaard and use him as a back-up, or get rid of De Gea and let Cesar and Lindegaard duke it out for the #1. Either move is short-sighted imo. Turning out de Gea for him is the worse of the two options since you take a bigger hit on the (presumably reduced) transfer fee if you sell him now.

    On another note, did anyone watch our match v Betis? Our first goal is an example of why keepers should punch instead of trying to catch when there is any doubt. Carvalho knocked against the keeper, and Ramos bundled home the spillage. We were struggling up to that point as the keeper was on form - we went on to score four.


  5. Bronaldo

    Bronaldo Red Card

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    Every British football commentator has just glanced in your general direction with a look of distaste.

    Hope you're happy.
  6. johno

    johno Member+

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    If you punch, punch clear, if you catch, hold on. Very simple.
  7. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    not really, think about it and just dont go with the obvious. if you could get three to four years of VDS level GKing would you not take it? if you dont think he can't do it then shut the door on the thought. But if you think he ha a high percentage of giving yo uthat level of GKing then it merits more thought, serious thought. here is myview. assume you can get 3 to 4 good years of VDS level play, and you sell De Gea and keep AL, i think that puts us in at least 2 CL finals and possible one more CL win. i would take that right now and find another young GK to blood. (i know one assumption "justifying" another! just think we could look more closely at the possiblity beyond the obvious)
  8. johno

    johno Member+

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    The main reason that this argument is annoying is that De Gea is a better keeper than Julio Cesar right now and certainly will be in the future. Furthermore, Cesar made a few good saves, but started rather poorly and DDG probably has had a half dozen games or so better than JC's best this season.

    It would be like turning in a Civic to get a horse and buggy.
  9. Invincible

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    Pretty much.

    The media(no offense Johno ;) ) are such a bunch of reactionary hype-mongers.

    As soon as Cesar makes a coupe great saves he's suddenly on the radar of Man Utd? What about his errors in the same game?

    What about all the great saves that De Gea has made in his Man Utd career? You don't hear/read anything about that...

    I don't understand the agenda against the kid. I really don't.
    B.A. repped this.
  10. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    if i give you fifty bucks would you take my side inthis so-called debate?? :D

    i am not saying we should. just saying we should entertain the notion more seriously than simply saying DDG is playing better than JC of which i dont disagree.

    since my whole thing is based on assumptions i will make one more, i beleive that JC might very well be a VDS in our team than QPR. i believe that DDG is still young and JC brings with him a whole lot of exeperience that if paired with our team presently could well put us in with a better shout at CL glory.

    you are doing what it is that i am asking you not to do. you are saying simply becasue DDG is looking better than JC then no. I am saying think about what JC might look like in our team and if we can get him to play the role VDS played which was more than just about GK 101. experience leadership, instilling confidence in the whole team the intrangibles. having been there before i think JC might be able to contribute in ways that DDG cant right now. if you make it that far in your analysis and think that he can do what VDS did for us, then is it worth 3 years (assumption) of that versus blooding DDG for 10 or more (another assumption). if that 3 years grings a CL final and potential CL victory then would you do it?

    just think about it beyond the obvious is all i ask (as i think you are shooting from the hip here)

    edit @ Vince - dont have an agenda against him to be fair. i think he is doing extremely well.
  11. pgr17

    pgr17 Member+

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  12. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

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    Frankly, De Gea has pulled off more vital saves in his time at United than he's had costly errors. His ceiling is as good as any young GK in Europe's. If he was playing for Swansea, all the focus would be on his stellar shot-stopping. If he had a cohesive defence in front of him, I'm sure it would be different.

    BTW, what do ppl make of Neville's comments? I've only read quotes and to me they coem across as simple fact: in isolation, his errors were costly. Did he truly "nail him to the mast" or is it simple media overreaction?
    Futbol_Head repped this.
  13. pgr17

    pgr17 Member+

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    if you believe the media he was "told" to say that by people at United to put pressure on DDG as "one of our own" coming out against him thus giving credo to SAF to find a replacement.

    they're having a laugh!
  14. Diable Rouge

    Diable Rouge Member+

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    i think there's overreaction on both sids regarding ddg. the british press shouldn't lose its collective mind every time he punches clear. but united fans can't get defensive to the point of not acknowledging some of his current weaknesses either.

    if he keeps having fits with redirecting rebounds outside of the "V", soon enough you'll see guys taking crackers from 30 yards out in hopes of a fortunate rebound. if you get a palm on the ball and not just fingertips, you should be able to steer it clear.

    EDIT: also, foh with julio cesar lol.
  15. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

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    It would be a gamble based on (as you acknowledge) DDG's better overall quality. Even worse, it could kill DDG's confidence as well as immediately causing his critics to declare him a failure.

    Imagine if you were hired as a rising star in your profession, only for a "more experienced" alternative to be brought in after some missteps on your part. Sure, your company might tell you this was a stop-gap to enable you to step out of the limelight and develop with decreased pressure - they may even mean it - but tell me that wouldn't be punch in the gut that could potentially undermine you.
  16. johno

    johno Member+

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    Finally a post of yours I can agree with.
  17. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    but you are missing something imprtant for me here. JC is not being brought in (in my assumption world here) becasue of DDG missteps. i would consider bringing him in IF i think he could provide VDS level play over the next three years as I think that would put us in CL territory. i would take those 3 years and start over with a new GK rather than lock DDG up for ten or more.

    take your example, if my replacement can deliver CL like results (cmparatively speaking) for 3 years then the company has to consider if it is worth it than having me for ten. nto saying they should but rather they should sit down and consider seriously beyong a passing "well this guy is young, lets keep him around". note: i am not asking you to say yes let JC in let DDG, but rahter can he bring something that DDG cant in the medium term and if yes, would you take that over a long term DDG?

    EDIT: we would have to sell DDG if that isnt obvious in my scenarios (which is why i am thinking about it so much)
  18. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    if you agree with it so much what does he man by foh?
  19. johno

    johno Member+

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    fuck outta here
  20. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    dude, i am just asking a question!! you know, you need to work on your people skills.
  21. johno

    johno Member+

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    You must have got beat up a lot in school.
  22. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    yeah by you, you f--k. think i forgot didya? bet you dont even remember

    :D
  23. johno

    johno Member+

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    Not bloody likely. Got my ass kicked in primary school as I was small and younger than everybody. Only had to fight once in secondary school.
  24. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

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    What makes you think he'd offer what VDS did? He's made howlers himself, they just weren't highlighted as strongly because he plays for QPR. I see him as no dead cert to improve on what DDG already offers. He may make a clanger within the first few games, then the knives will be out. The difference between the two is that DDG can improve and learn to the point where he will be an elite GK. JC is already in decline, isn't playing as well as DDG and would be a midterm option at best.

    Considering what we went through post-Schmeichel with Carroll, Bosnich, Barthez and Howard, I think we'd be just as well investing the years in developing DDG than in potentially going through a spell of trial and error in the hope that we land another VDS.
  25. J'can

    J'can Member+

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    great. i have been stalking the wrong person all this time.

    cant catch effing break :D
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