Revs Re-Sign Andy Dorman

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by Crooked, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Mike Marshall

    Mike Marshall Member+

    Feb 16, 2000
    Woburn, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FWIW, I would caution against reading too much into stuff like "Player X failed in this league, so he can't play in MLS," or "Player Y used to play in the Premier League, so he should be a star over here."

    If I had a dollar...
     
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  2. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every player that plays for the Revs gets better with time. Don't you know this?
     
  3. Revolution909

    Revolution909 Member

    Mar 28, 2011
    Rumford, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yes!


    I'm pretty sure my posts accounted for 50% of the last Dorman thread. I'm obviously a fan of Dorman & I welcome him back with open arms, I've been saying resign him for like 3 months now. He brings:

    - Familiarity with MLS
    -Invaluable European experience (better touch, used to faster play, etc.)
    - Veteran leadership, let's hope

    Yes, we shouldn't be predicting success based on what leagues individuals play in, BUT MLS, the SPL, and lower English leagues are all very fast, very physical leagues.

    MLS seems to have figured this out in recent years, and the acquisition of, and transition of players like Boyd, Miller, Robson, and that Colorado winger from Aberdeen seemed to be very quick and painless. (Not to keep tooting my own horn, but I've been complaining that MLS teams should pick up more SPL players for years - the leagues are very similar )

    Anyway, 2 negatives that I don't think anyone has posted yet:

    1.) Joseph and Heaps didn't exactly seem to see eye-to-eye. Is Dorman, now a Euro-hardened-veteran, who has played at a higher level than Heaps ever did, going to listen to his one-time-teammate & buy into the Heaps philosophy? Or like Joseph (I presume), is he going to start to think Coach Jay has no idea what is going on, and get benched on Dorman bobble head night?

    2.) When Dorman succeeded in MLS, he had arguably one of the best supporting casts in League history. He played off Pepe, Dempsey, Ralston, and Twellman, remarkably well - that group / groups displayed THE best football we have seen in Gillette, and that quality has not been matched since.

    Dorman developed in that system, alongside those players. Now, he returns to a different "system" (can we even call it that?) in which there is no Steve Ralston developing the attack & pumping in balls from the wings. Defenses are no longer worried about stopping Taylor Twellman, Dempsey, or Noonan (or Larentowicz... or Pepe... or Felix Brillant). Dorman is not returning to the dynamic attacking force he left. Its a free-for-all sh*t show in which one of the Olympic's best strikers, a life long poacher, is forced to create his own chances from Midfield. Will Dorman be able to help create a fluid attack? Or will he be lost in the individual mayhem that is the Revs front lines?
     
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  4. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I'm expecting him to come back better. How many players play in Europe and come back worse (unless they're clearly over the hill)?

    I guess there's Noonan. :eek:
     
  5. Crooked

    Crooked Member+

    May 1, 2005
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Many. Edson Buddle is another recent one. It happens all the time. Some players improve, others regress. I don't understand what's so difficult to comprehend about that.
     
  6. Revolution909

    Revolution909 Member

    Mar 28, 2011
    Rumford, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well Noonan kinda "went" to Europe the same way I may "go" to the gym - he doesn't necessarily have to play, I don't necessarily have to exercise.

    Dorman, however, won over the hearts and minds of the Love Street & St. Mirren Park faithful. He made a real go of it in the SPL. I believe they had a Dorman-specific chant for him.
     
  7. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    Great Post
     
  8. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    This line struck me as really funny. I LOL'd.

    But then I thought about it and realized it made me laugh in a hysterical, crazed, sort of way. Not in a good, healthy, sort of way.

    The sort of laughing that concerns my wife.
     
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  9. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every single Burns off season move is protected and justified but, looking back, only about 10-20% of Burns' foreign moves (some will split hairs since Dorman has a green card, I think) really amount to anything. This has gone on for 5 years now. If Burns did it, the safe bet is it will turn out to be a stinker.

    None of that is a specific indictment of Dorman. I liked him before.
     
  10. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great post on Dorman. While he isnt returning to the same cast, he always was able to create scoring opportunities on his own and could play in his strikers skillfully. I remember some beautiful through balls where he was able to unlock gilt edge chances.

    Based on their respective performance numbers in MLS specifically and expected contribution, I actually consider Dorman an upgrade to Feilhaber, even 5 years after he left the league. He fits the style of play a lot better however, if Dorman starts that's a problem. He's just another solid off the bench option.
     
  11. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly......its pretty obvious from the way his career has gone since leaving St Mirren that he is not at the top of his game. He was a decent player in MLS but that was 5-6 years ago. The league has improved where I can't see that Andy has
     
  12. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What part of that was wrong? Benny is not better than Dorman? The Revs will not improve by bringing in higher quality players than Dorman? Dorman was a decent player 5 years ago but his career has nose dived since leaving St Mirren. To think he is going to be the key to the Revs making a run to the championship next year is just naïve thinking
     
  13. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Andy is being brought back in to play a reserve/support role then this is harmless. If he is being brought back in because the Revs "Brain" trust envisions him as playing a leading role in our first team, then we need look no further for confirmation that the Revs are totally lost.
    Andy was a solid, MLS player half a decade ago, and continued to be such, for a year, with St. Mirren in SPL. Then it all fell apart for him. He is a shadow of his former self, and what evidence do we have he can make himself again a man of substance? None, at all.
    I suppose the next move will be to bring back Joseph.
     
  14. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why stop at Joseph? Let's bring back Pepe Cancela (he still plays for Saprissa), trade for Larentowicz, and Danny Hernandez. Promise Dempsey his own rap studio, bring Noonan back to pull his hamstring on the turf just like the old days, convince Parky to come home, Twellman and Ralston as Heaps's assistants with Khano, Stevie Nicol or Mariner as color commentators and there's most of your '05-'06 revs.

    Franchino and Irish Danny O'Connor can provide the halftime boxing entertainment with the winner getting a kiss from a rev girl.
     
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  15. RevsFanDan

    RevsFanDan Member

    May 24, 2005
    North Shore
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perfect..But, I'd get rid of Heaps for Zenga!
     
  16. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This Benny vs. Dorman comparison is silly. Benny hasn't been all he can be in the time he's played for us, but who are we kidding? He's a border-line national teamer, and you just know that the moment he gets traded somewhere else (for 36 cents on the dollar) he will emerge as the player we all hoped he would be here.
     
  17. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really doubt that Tom - at least in MLS. He's very technically oriented, adept at winning fouls, and has vision to provide gorgeous through balls when he wants to, as he demonstrated in 2011. But his game is ideally suited for a less physical, more technical league - which is not descriptive of MLS. This is partially why he's had limited success in this league. Put him in the Mexican league or back in continental Europe, surrounded by technical players and I bet he'd do well.
     
  18. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    The big difference here is that Dorman is choosing to play for Heaps, where Joseph had it thrust upon him. And, Dorman went out of his way to talk about how excited he was after talking with Heaps and hearing his ideas.

    And, the other difference I think, is that a lot of Joseph's frustrations with Heaps were mostly due to him "losing it" pretty suddenly. With the way he played, I think Heaps was pretty much vindicated for limiting his playing time, but I wouldn't expect that to sit well with Joseph, whether the coach was Heaps, Steve Nicol or anyone else for that matter.
     
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  19. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    My opinion, watching the body language and the results, is that Benny wants to be a highly appreciated, highly recognized, highly-technical individual contributor; but he has zero interest in being a do-it-all team leader/director. He does not embrace the leadership role that many here seem to want him to provide.

    He is a complementary player. He is not a franchise player. Possibly one of the most technically skilled complementary players in the league.

    He wants to be just one tree in a forest; albeit a "wicked awesome" tree; but not the tallest or strongest or biggest tree. He want to have the coolest bark, or the best leaves, or the gnarliest branches, or the most attitude. And he wants other trees to bear the hurricane winds; to keep down the undergrowth; to give him shade. To free him up to do his own tree thing without distractions nor extra responsibilities.

    My opinion is that he needs at least one or two others of his technical caliber a.) on the field and b.) near him at all/most times in order to succeed; he also needs serious air cover from at least two "hards" with skills, to keep opposing thuggery highly occupied. Put him in that sort of mix in MLS and I think he would light it up. (My sense is he would draw a lot of energy from knowing that he doesn't need to be the man, energy that is being sucked out of him in his role with the Revs.)

    Put him on any team with a lesser cast around him and he will disappear for long periods of time. i.e., any teams in bottom 2/3rds of MLS. Revs included.

    I don't think there are many teams in MLS with that sort of cast already in place AND who could also take him on. Maybe one or two, but no more.

    So, I think that Tom is right, if Benny has the right cast around him. But RLpool is right, if Benny ends up with a lesser-capable team. Or stays here.
     
  20. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You said it better than I could. That was kind of what I was getting at. He could be a great player in the right situation, but it doesn't look like this is that situation. Repepd.
     

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