Revs off-season Part II

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by patfan1, Dec 18, 2013.

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  1. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Old thread was over 500 posts.

    Well, the re-entry drafts have both taken place. Other than cutting quite a few players, the only move the Revs have made so far is to trade for Brad Knighton.


  2. sputnikorbust

    sputnikorbust Member

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    And add Paolo DelPiccolo
  3. agoo101284

    agoo101284 Member

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    I was in the process of typing this when the last thread closed - we don't actually have a lot of open space on the roster for senior players if the limit is still 20. We're at 16, not counting Sene and assuming Rowe and Farrell graduate from GA deals. If we're in talks with Barnes and Alston, they would be 17 and 18, which does not leave us much space to bring in guys who are already in MLS.

    Looks like we'd be better off holding those two senior spots for an Agudelo replacement and a defensive mid.
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  4. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

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    I don't mind that they passed in the Re-entry draft. I didn't see much value in anyone on the list. I originally thought Espindola's contract was much lower than it actually was. The Revs should have a lot of cash to play with and roster flexibility, but we've seen that movie before...
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  5. BrianLBI

    BrianLBI BigSoccer Supporter

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    There are lots of things to worry about with respect to the Revs, but I am most worried about forwards. Subtract Agudelo, and with Sene's injury we're looking decidedly thin. We can not be contemplating relying on Bengston, can we?
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  6. Soccer Doc

    Soccer Doc Member+

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    I guess for now we are standing by to stand by. Sure is hard to be patient this time of the year, esp watching a fair level of action zinging around the League. OTOH, I like that the Revs have a solid core of players that are on the upswing in maturity and ability that have played together for awhile. I think continuity in a roster is often overlooked when evaluating a teams off season moves. It's exciting as a fan to watch them add to a roster but getting a bunch of new players on the same page isn't easy. Heaps is obviously got an idea of how he want to play and is slowly adding solid pieces to what is for the most part a stable roster. Sure we need a few key additions but I don't think there was much of value available to us in either iteration of the reentry draft.

    NOW DAMN IT---give us something that we can chew on :cool:
  7. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

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    A keeper that still has to prove he is a #1 keeper in this league and has potential and bench depth.
    There is a little over a month until training camp. I think we all agree that this team needs to upgrade an add starters. If we go into game 1 with Tierney starting at LB and Bengston or Imbongo as the starting forward the Revs are in deep doo doo
    pwykes repped this.
  8. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

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    This is the Revs we are talking about, Doc. ;)
  9. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd have been okay with taking a flier on Justin Braun as this year's version of Chad Barrett. You don't expect him to be your chief starter, but he's okay as a sub or spot starter, and if he turns out to be better than that, well, hey, good problem to have.
  10. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member

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    Soccer America has Tierney as the 8th best LB in the league. (http://www.socceramerica.com/article/55438/mls-positional-rankings-sinovic-is-highest-in-pro.html). Nowhere other than here on the Revs BS board is Tierney viewed as a substandard MLS back.

    I doubt that replacing Tierney is anywhere on the Heaps/Burns to-do list. He is one of the five regular backs who finished last year tied for third best in the league in GA, and they are all returning. There is also the new international and they can, if they want to, re-sign Alston and Barnes. I wouldn't be expecting any significant new backs.

    I do expect a few attacking players -- a starting caliber wide player and a hold-up striker. Oh, and maybe a boss midfielder, if they can find one.

    As for Bengtson, Heaps has hinted that he may change the formation in order to make better us of Bengtsen. I don't know what that would be, because the alternatives (say a 4-4-2 with a skinny diamond midfield) don't have an optimal spot for others -- especially Fagundez. But I didn't see the 4-1-4-1 coming either.

    I am really excited to see who the signings are, who trials with them when camp opens, who they draft, and how the formation shapes up in pre-season.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  11. Doublecard

    Doublecard Member

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  12. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

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    Those appear to be the top 10 starting US LBs in MLS. They ommited Roy Miller, Agustin Viana, Gonzalo Segares, Jair Benitez Ashton Morgan, Dennis Iapichino, and whoever Montreal and Chivas USA are using at LB this season. So I'd put him probably closer to 13, which is a below average starting LB. He does appear to be the 2nd worst starting US left back in MLS. So that's something...

    Although Leo Gonzalez is Costa Rican...so I have no idea what they're basing this list off. They missed some obvious players it seems.
  13. bwidell

    bwidell Member+

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    It's not a U.S.-eligible only list. It just happens that the author's top 10 for left back contains only one foreign player. They didn't "miss" anyone. It's how the author ranks the left backs in MLS.
  14. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member

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    Yeah, I don't really understand the list. Maybe Mahoney does not rate the guys you listed in the top 10, league-wide?

    Anyway, the point stands -- the only place I ever see or hear Tierney trashed is on this board. I've never seen an analysis anywhere else of LB being a glaring problem for the Revs. OTOH, I have heard and read journalists (not just the Revs homers) speak well of Tierney. I think the disdain for him here is a curious phenomenon.
  15. agoo101284

    agoo101284 Member

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    You'd think Chris Tierney and Robert Kraft were the same guy based on what is written about them on this board.
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  16. Soccer Doc

    Soccer Doc Member+

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    My professional take: Once a meme gets established it colors all future perceptions to the exclusion of new data.

    My take: Tierney is slow but he's got a good soccer brain, said to be a respected leader in the locker room, is steady if not spectacular as a left back and has shown he can adequately handle of positions. For me this composite adds up to him being a solid middle of the pack quality MLS player who doesn't deserve the distain heaped on him on this Board.
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  17. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

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    I guess I was thrown off by him starting the article by saying, "It’s been a while since MLS provided the U.S. national team with a capable pool of left backs.". Interesting list. He's done RBs and GKs as well.

    http://www.socceramerica.com/article/55456/mls-positional-rankings-unions-williams-breaks-t.html
    http://www.socceramerica.com/article/55415/mls-positional-rankings-veteran-keepers-maintain.html
  18. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

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    You know what they say about opinions. the author has his and I have mine. Pretty sure Revs fans have seen more of him than Mahoney and so take that for what its worth. But if you want to use this list (which is the best LB eligible for the US team not best in MLS) its also interesting that the Revs tossed away the #1 one guy and kept the #8 guy. Guess that was a Savvy business move:cool:
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  19. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

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    not a fan of his "Educated" left peg?
  20. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

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    If you are happy with middle of the pack have at it but you don't win championships that way. I don't hate Tierney. To me Tierney is a utility type player. He can handle LB or even LM but has obvious flaws one being his below average speed. Having a good soccer brain can only help you out so much there. All this talk by the homers in the booth about his left leg is just that. It's average as well. He has decent skill with the ball at his feet and an ok cutback. My personal opinion is as long as Tierney is a starting player at LB the Revs do not win an MLS championship
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  21. agoo101284

    agoo101284 Member

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    No. 7 Leo Gonzalez is a Costa Rican with 61 caps. Its the best LBs in MLS. Also, dropping Sinovic was a mistake, but it was under Nicol's watch. Not much we can do about it now. Its also worth noting that Real Salt Lake had him and dropped him as well, so we're not the only ones missing out. RSL is pretty bad at identifying talent though...

    The bigger question is, what's an upgrade at LB worth? None of the guys on that list are game changers. They're all steady guys who won't win a match for you, but won't lose it either. Jordi Alba isn't coming here and there aren't guys like that in MLS. With the cap and roster constraints being what they are, you can't have superstars at every position. The Supporters' Shield winners started Roy Miller, who is terrible, 17 times. They have a starting midfielder who has more indoor appearances to his credit than MLS appearances and was only recently able to break into the Northern Ireland national team.

    Also, the fact that folks are confused when looking at the list and thinking its a list of US eligible LBs in MLS should tell you something about the position. Teams aren't using international spots here. They're using Americans from the weakest position in the player pool. There isn't investment at that position (or RB) in the league, most teams are taking guys who won't lose them games and that's what Tierney is.

    Replacing Tierney shouldn't be a focus for the off-season. We have significant needs and an MLS ready left back is not one of them. Would you rather have a guy at Chris Wingert's level than a strong defensive mid who can link with Goncalves behind him and push Caldwell up the park, while also handling enforcement duties? Would you rather have a guy at Chris Klute's level than a goal scorer up top?

    What would a marginal upgrade be worth to you (anyone, not just @firstshirt )? Who do you get? How do you get him?
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  22. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member

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    I can appreciate a few perspectives here. I agree that the Revs have a good core and I agree that the Revs have a few keys losses in Agudelo, Reis, and Sene (at least for a while).

    For me, something that has always been missing, even in the days of milk and honey, is depth. MLS quality depth. I might not love the players in the waiver draft and I would not build a team around them, but there were some players available who are of comparable quality to the existing Revs counterpart that happens to be a starter.

    Why not take a chance on a player like that? That player could probably provide near starter quality depth at an affordable price. I am not looking to use the waiver draft to replace a key player, but it could have provided depth that helps this team to steal a game or two down the stretch or in the playoffs. Some of those players might have provided depth and a little more grit, which the Revs need.

    Remember, you can still use the SuperDraft and you can still sign replacements for Agudelo, Reis, Sene, or any other key hole that needs to be filled by a cornerstone type of player or even a DP. Get them all in camp on day one. Give them all a good run and hope they can stay healthy so the coach/FO can make an informed decision when it comes time to make cuts. Then cut the players who did not make the team. This is the reason why I do not understand why we did not at least take a chance on some players in the waiver draft. If we had selected a player then the player is not entitled to anything unless they make the team correct? If that is the case, then I just don't see why we didn't secure rights/take a ook at a few players for MLS proven depth.
  23. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

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    I think it's just the nature of the position. LB is generally considered one of the weakest positions on many teams, even at the elite club level. Maybe it's just Germany, but rarely do you see game changers in that position. There are maybe like 3 really good LBs in the Bundesliga, and the rest are just treading water or below average on their respective teams. Maybe the EPL and La Liga are different.
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  24. ktsd

    ktsd Member

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    I'd rather they aim higher than another Barrett - I really would. I even have hope that there is an unknown Rowe-level difference maker out there somewhere for whom the Revs should be holding a spot. I don't expect them to spend _money_, but I'd rather they didn't close the door on the possibility they might make a big pick-up by filling positions with mediocre players.

    Sigh. Can I take another year of being underwhelmed? C'mon Heaps and Burns! Impress us!
  25. NFLPatriot

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    One thing to keep in mind, the Revs have been able to sign less than half of the players they have taken in the past re-entry drafts. Signed: Ryan Cochrane, Clyde Simms, Chad Barrett. Unsigned: Fred (later traded), Nate Jaqua, Danleigh Borman, Hunter Freeman.
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