agree here. 5-6 sounds about right. Polak seems like a definite. Caldwell a likely candidate as well as Spencer/Smith if they are signed. Nyassi could certainly go. Wouldn't be surprised to see Barnes head to Rochester for the season either.
File this way, way down the priority list as far as things to think about as it relates to this affiliation, but...in what ways will this impact the Open Cup? I don't know the player eligibility rules inside and out, but I know there are provisions regarding loaned players, and players who appear in the cup for other teams. Again, not a major issue in any way, I'm just curious about how that will be dealt with.
Once you play a game for one team, you're "cup tied." Our reserves that choose to play in the Open Cup with Rochester won't be able to play for the Revs.
I get that, but I'd be interested to hear from the Revs/Rhinos about how they plan to address the situation. I seriously doubt the choice, as you put it, will be left up to the players as to whether or not they play in Open Cup games for one team or another. But we all know the Revs have rarely taken the Open Cup that seriously and often play reserves in the event. However, if they've got 4-6 of their reserves with Rochester, and the pro rounds of the Open Cup are about to start - what steps will be taken to ensure that a player the Revs might want to call in for the Open Cup themselves doesn't end up cup tied by playing with the Rhinos. The Open Cup is an important tournament for the Rhinos, so they aren't going to want to lose all of their loaned players for those games. Since they will have at least 4 of our players all season, some Revs players will most likely end up playing for the Rhinos in the Cup and will be lost to us (unless there is some kind of "you can't play any of these players in the open cup" gentleman's agreement between the teams). I'm just curious to know more about how the two teams will balance their commitment to the affiliation agreement at the same time that they have to compete in a tournament where they could conceivably play against each other. Can't you just picture Caldwell, Horth, or someone else burying the game winner in the 89th minute for the Rhinos and knocking us out of the cup?
Depends on who the player in question is. Some guy who's barely staying on the roster, that MLS journeyman looking to find a way into the team. Sure, they can fight for those bench roles. But a high ceiling youngster who's still trying to unlock his potential? I want no part of that kid occupying a bench. That's insanity. The Revs don't run better cone drills and six-a-sides than the Rhinos. There's no magic to doing that stuff in Foxboro. The kids can go down to Rochester and play in real games. This is how the system runs in baseball and hockey, and it works. The priority kids develop in the minors and it keeps them sharp. When they come up, it's to take a job on the field not on the bench. You've got to separate your filler from your prospects. Prospects need to play.
On how the affiliation works in regard to the U.S. Open Cup… MB: Our intent is that the players that we loan to Rochester, we are not going to prevent or prohibit those players from playing Open Cup matches for Rochester. However, once and if a Revolution player does play in an Open Cup match for Rochester, that player will be cup-tied. So whether we played against each other or they’ve already played for Rochester, they would be committed to play for Rochester in the Open Cup. But it is not our intent and we will not be calling players back on loan to play for our team in the Open Cup. They will continue to play for Rochester. http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/news/2013/01/conference-call-revs-rhinos-affiliation
Caldwell is a "high 1st round pick"-level player who has trained with the Revs for parts of the past several years, unless he's not as good as anyone thought he's not going to Rochester. Polak is probably a 99% certainty, along with whichever 2nd round/Supplemental picks make the team - the Horth signing probabaly diminishes the chance Spencer, for example, sees any first team minutes.
you're right, i can see Caldwell sticking with the Revs. also, i hope that we sign Chris Thomas, he seems like a perfect candidate (aside from Polak) for some USLPRO development.
Is Caldwell good enough to start for the Revs? I was under the impression he was more like a mid-to-late 1st rounder, which would put him in the camp of very talented kids who could stand a little more seasoning. Most 1st rounders, even the top ones, aren't ready to waltz into MLS these days. The Revs have Toja, Rowe, Nguyen, Dorman, Guy and Nyassi for attacking mid/wing options, not to mention Fagundez and Tierney. If Caldwell's ranks any lower than 4th when you throw him into that mix of players (4th would make him the first attacking midfield option off the bench), then I'd send him to Rochester. And since I suspect he'll be more like the #6 option, I'd definitely send him to Rochester.
I think we'll see some guys who stay there for the season and then some who bounce back and forth. I could see Caldwell and Fagundez moving back and forth between the two teams regularly. Polak and this year's supplemental picks are more likely to stick around in Rochester to keep us at 4 at all times. Also, who counts for the loans? Jossimar Sanchez will be out for a while, but if he's "loaned" to Rochester while remaining in New England for rehab, does that count? I'm also wondering if I missed something about international player restrictions for Rochester. Anyone know?
It's not a straight 1st - 6th depth chart though. Dorman and Toja do not play on the wing, Guy and Nyassi don't play centrally, and Nguyen doesn't play on the right. Fagundez splits time between forward and RM (I personally think he's a better fit at forward and more needed there for now). Tierney doesn't play Caldwell's position at all. I'm confident that Caldwell sight unseen is at least better than Nyassi, so he's not even in the conversation either. Essentially, he'll be competing with Rowe, Guy and occasionally Fagundez for minutes on the right, and that's a close enough competition he's definitely in the conversation for first team minutes this year.
I think Polak has a chance to make the team as a starter. I think LB is up for grabs, and he has as good a chance as anyone. It completely depends on how camp goes. Caldwell can play as a #8 as well, right? If that's the case, he stays with the first team. I think he could end up starting next to Cisse at some point this year.
I just can't see the Revs loaning Diego out to Rochester, it doesn't seem like it would be ideal to have a 17 year old kid a couple hundred miles away from home/school. I could be wrong though.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Diego is hands-off for Rochester for that reason (and marketing purposes). Later on in camp I'll be very curious to see the rounds of cuts that are made - if they'll be clearing out any deadweight, definite (Nyassi) or perceived (Imbongo) in favor of trialists or rookies. It'll be a good indicator of the pecking order for the 18 and Rochester. Offtopic, still hoping for a DP #10 - they *should* have the cap room for one and that spot's been identified as a target for Heaps/Burns (Julio Dos Santos)?
Whoever does go to Rochester will get a warm welcome to the minor leagues. Their first 4 games are all on the road and within 7 days: Sat April 13 at Tampa Sun April 14 at Orlando Fri April 19 at Charlotte Sat April 20 at Richmond I wonder if it will all be one big bus ride or if they'll go home between. The USL schedule will allow the loaned players to go through the entire preseason with the Revs and maybe the first game or two. Then at the end of the season, they'll be available again by early September for the final couple months of the season.
Imbongo, Horth, and Spencer also sound like very similar players to me. I wouldn't be surprised to see Imbongo cut, he's a waste of an SI spot at this point.
Looks like that was intentionally scheduled for 1 trip - especially during the rainy season up north. They may even have a southern "camp" that runs up to the season opener. I think Nyassi might be a perfect guy to send. He's got to be a big player in USL and if he's ever going to show something, he's going to have to get some steady play in again - and it seems doubtful he's going to earn it in practice time here. Go west, show some scoring ability, then come back with some confidence. Or not. The Revs will also factor in having the right number and the right kind of bodies so they can have useful practices and inter-squad scrimmages.
I get that it doesn't run in linear fashion on a game-by-game basis, but at some point the minutes do stack up that way. If Caldwell is effectively the #6 option from that pack it's going to translate to about 300 minutes of action. If you think the kid is a real prospect then send him to the USL where he can get 2,000+ minutes. If the Revs want to recall him at some point and put him in heavy rotation (or use him in heavy rotation from the outset) then fine., but keeping him around as an occasional bench is going to blunt his development. Let Nyassi gather rust on the bench, chase the starters in practice and pick up the spare minutes. If they think Caldwell really is a player, then let him play.
Great points. Lots of time to work with the Revs staff before the USL season and get a taste of first team action after the USL season.
Just doing a little number crunching to see the benefits. USL-Pro teams play 24 games, plus 2 additional games against MLS Reserve squads. If the 4 Revs loanees play all 90 minutes (big if) of these 26 games, that's 9,360 minutes. Last year, Revs players played about 8,000 minutes in 10 Reserve games, with the other 1,900 minutes going to guest/academy players. Subtract out first-team players rehabbing injuries, and your are down to about 7,700 min. Add in the 2 additional games vs USL-Pro (12 total) and that extrapolates to about 9,200 minutes in 2013. So, the total minutes for true reserves players is about equal, 9,000+. The benefit to the Revs would be: 1. Minutes spread out over fewer players, potentially better development 2. No need to hire a Reserves coach 3. No need to search for guest players