Revolution Stadium Groundbreaking "12-24 months" Part VIII

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the state effectively take nearly three years to figure out where they were going to put the new maintenance facility?

Where would it have gone in Somerville?

 

There was a quote, I think in the Revere articles, that KSG was seeking "public funding" and as soon as I read that I knew there was no way a deal was ever happening. The state government has its share of public works failures/financial sinkholes (hello MBTA!) but I've always been proud of the fact Massachusetts has never (to my knowledge at least) let billionaires leech public funds for stadiums and incur massive debt for the state.

Given the fact that there have been very high-profile instances of stadium deals badly harming cities due to the amount of public funds being diverted from needed public services (Miami, Oakland, eventually Buffalo) there's absolutely no way a deal will ever get done where the Krafts pay less than 95% of the cost. The state wouldn't even have to look hard for MLS-related examples, as the financial disasters related to Red Bull Arena and Toyota Park are also well-documented.

 

"Public funding" could mean a lot of things, though.

Are they seeking funding for road and infrastructure improvements? That's perfectly valid.

Are they seeking public assistance when it comes to land acquisition? Probably depends on what kind of help they need.

Are they seeking funding for the stadium costs? That'll never happen.

 

I

I understand the points you make and respect them, however I don't think the MBTA is a good comparison. Any transit system is a money loser, no matter the city, requiring lots of public subsidies to function. But cities build them for their own overall economic health and growth. A sports stadium is obviously a different kind of project.

 

Kraft himself has set the precedent for what degree of "public funding" he should expect to receive for a soccer-specific stadium in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts with his construction of Gillette Stadium.

Given that the Krafts paid for/financed construction of Gillette Stadium on their own... on land that already belonged to them... and agreed to reimburse the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for the infrastructure improvements that the state provided surrounding said facility, why should the Krafts believe that they're deserving of a different - more generous - deal for a soccer-specific home for the Revolution?

The only questions that any public official, or NIMBY activist, have to posit in order to put Kraft on the spot regarding his seeking public funding for a soccer-specific stadium for the Revolution are these:

* "Are you willing to cut the exact same deal for this facility that you did for Gillette Stadium - a privately-financed stadium built on land that you acquire(d) at market value, with any public infrastructure improvements surrounding said facility being reimbursed by you through annual payments?"

* "If not, why?"

 

The public funding was for infrastructure and land value. Land in the Boston area is expensive. Outright buying land for a stadium could cost $20-30 million for a stadium site on the T, and that's without any parking. If the city required the construction of a parking garage, you'd be looking at another $10-20 so million.

I totally agree that a billionaire should finance this stuff on his/her own, but I understand how infrastructure cost and land cost could prevent the project from being profitable. If that is the case, I just wish Kraft would invest that money into big name Brazilian/Portuguese stars. I'm sure they could nearly fill the lower bowl with a big move like that.

Unfortunately, Kraft and the Revs FO think small. That, in itself, shows that they have very little faith in the franchise. If the owners have such little faith in the Revs, why should we?

 

Because Foxboro and Revere are different.

1. The "annual payments" in Foxboro resulted in higher parking fees. At Wonderland, there would not be as many parking spots, and the organization could not charge the same fees ($50!!!) for each spot. In addition, a far higher percentage of fans would likely use public transportation in Revere.

2. The expected cost of those infrastructure improvements is likely to be higher in Revere than Foxboro, which mostly consisted of an overpass, a bridge, some stop lights, and a slight widening of Route 1.

That said, this could still be a "win-win" public/private partnership.

 

That's a pretty open-ended statement (and pretty meaningless IMO).

Kraft probably isn't willing to pay whatever it may cost. Who is?

Every proposal has to be judged on it's merits. And, just about every reasonable person acknowledges that in certain areas (ex., Boston, DC) it's very, very tough to find a suitable site that still makes financial sense.

I don't think there's any specific requirement from Kraft that land, infrastructure, etc. has to get public help - OTOH the whole package does have to make sense financially one way or another.

 

You may be conflating two different areas in Somerville. Assembly Square is going up now. The road network got rebuilt there in 2009-10. The new Orange Line station is under construction and should open in 2014. Federal Realty started construction on new housing/retail last year. The IKEA property went up for sale, Federal Realty bought it without Kraft ever being a serious player for that property. There is still a spot for a stadium in Assembly Square, right next to the not-so-subtly-named Revolution Drive. That's where Kraft goes if he's serious about building a stadium right now.

Then there's Brickbottom/Inner Belt. That's where the Revs were originally looking in Somerville. The maintenance facility decision got made back in early 2010. Construction of the Green Line extension officially started a couple months ago. That area is a little farther out in terms of when the infrastructure comes on line. Whatever delay there's been in that area is largely immaterial though as Kraft's interest never got past the speculation phase. This (and the glorious mess in Revere) is where Kraft goes back to speculate if he's not serious about building a stadium.

 

To which a budget-conscious public official and/or NIMBY activist is likely to respond that the Krafts' inability to generate the revenue necessary to cover the annual payments for infrastructure improvements is the Krafts' problem. If they can't generate said revenue via parking fees/surcharges, then it is incumbent upon them to find the money elsewhere. Barring that, they can either opt to forego the publicly-funded infrastructure improvements surrounding the stadium, or the stadium project itself.

To which the aforementioned public official and/or NIMBY activist is likely to say that annual payments towards paying back public investment for infrastructure improvements should be higher. After all, why should the public sector be expected to bear a larger financial burden on this project than it did in Foxboro?

The Gillette Stadium project required a certain level of infrastructure work in order to come to fruition. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts committed to making the initial outlay necessary to complete said infrastructure work, with the proviso that the state would be paid back in full through annual payments by the Krafts. The Krafts agreed to the arrangement because they foresaw an avenue by which they would be able to generate, through the operation of Gillette Stadium and anticipated ancillary development, the revenues necessary to pay back the initial public investment.

Now, it may very well be that - for a variety of reasons - the Krafts don't foresee an avenue by which they'll be able to generate the revenues necessary to pay back initial public investment on a soccer-specific stadium for the Revolution in Revere, or a like community. At the very least, it could be that the Krafts don't foresee paying back the initial public investment on a soccer-specific stadium as being as easily accomplished as repaying the public investment surrounding the Gillette Stadium project. Whichever scenario we're talking about, if that's the case, that's the Krafts' problem.

Simply put, if the deal doesn't pencil-out for the Krafts, it doesn't pencil-out.

It could... but the devil, as they say, is in the details.

 

I'm all for it making financial sense, but there's some realities that come with the cost of urban land and construction. Kraft has said that money isn't the problem and that's a lie. Money is the problem.

I could respect it a bit if he came out and said, "I've got a budget for land and construction, and so far everything we're checking is at least 50% too high." Mind you, it would beg the question whether he's got a realistic budget. Construction and building materials will never cost less than during the past few years. Yet at least it would stop the nonsense about looking for infrastructure that's getting built anyway or finding cities willing to green light the project.

This is about money and Bob Kraft's willingness to spend it. Maybe he's right not to spend the cash, but let's stop pretending that there's a mystery gorilla in the room. There isn't. The cash gorilla is all alone.

 

Could be a start on another beer label.

 

Apparently these clowns think we are stupid enough to buy into everything they say:

https://twitter.com/MidnightRiders/status/298608056370073600

Hahaha, yeah. You guys have been the furthest thing from ambitious. Disgusting that they would try to pass that off to us.

 

Got to give them credit for chutzpah. Still, hopefully somebody had the good sense to throw furniture when they said it.

 

FWIW, I know all about Assembly Square. I drive past it nearly every day. And as much as I'd like to be wrong, my opinion is that the more you look at the two Assembly Square options, the more you realize that there's not a real workable solution. If the Revs are guilty of something, it's waiting too long on the maintenance facility decision and not jumping on the IKEA lot, which might not have been big enough to begin with.

Brickbottom was slightly more workable, but even that had serious issues.

Of all the locations discussed, Wonderland remains by far the most realistic solution.

 

Naturally.

And that's the point at which the Krafts should come back and say, "Listen, you're not going to get the same deal that Foxboro got. But we can still find a deal that's mutually beneficial. If you're interested, then great - let's talk. If you're not, then that's fine, we'll go somewhere else."

True.

 

And that's the point at which the budget-conscious public official and/or NIMBY activist says, "Really? Explain to me exactly how public subsidization of a stadium plan for your Major League Soccer franchise is deserving of a more beneficial deal than you received for your National Football League team's facility."

"And while you're at it, please define your understanding of what constitutes 'mutually beneficial'."

"We're not. Your deal with the Commonwealth for reimbursed infrastructure improvements surrounding a privately-financed Gillette Stadium on land you paid fair-market value for established a precedent that we're more than comfortable sticking to."

"Good luck with that."

Bottom line? From where I'm sitting, I don't think the Krafts and their Major League Soccer franchise have nearly the bargaining power you seem to credit them with. Not unless they get lucky and the team goes on a championship-winning tear this season that suddenly convinces multiple communities within the Greater Boston urban core that playing host to a Major League Soccer franchise is the hot, new catalyst for municipal economic growth and development.

I'd like to be optimistic, but reality keeps rearing its ugly head.

 

lol even his buddies in the FO are contradicting him

The Bent Musket ‏@TheBentMusket
Bilello says there's not much Supporters can do about SSS. It isnt political at this point; it's financing #NERevs

 

publicly financed stadiums are a scam

 

Sush, KO, don't ruin it for us!

 

A publicly financed stadium would ruin it for us. We are all citizens of the city/region.

 

"Deserves" has nothing to do with it. MLS and the NFL have different business models. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other. Either Revere wants the stadium, or they don't. If they want it, they're going to have to deal with the fact that they won't get the same deal Foxboro got. Will there be objections to that? Probably. But the Revs will have to hope that the Mayor and other key politicians are on their side.

Revs get a new stadium with infrastructure improvements, Revere ends up with infrastructure improvements and enough new tax revenue to pay for it.

FWIW, I think this all gets worked out when the city sits down with Caesar's and the Revs and three of them work out some sort of deal where Caesar's pays for a large portion of the infrastructure improvements, the Revs pay a much smaller percentage, and the City picks up a small portion, as well. Just my gut feeling.

I hate to say it, but the Krafts' leverage here is that they can always stay in Foxboro. And Wonderland can just continue to sit vacant, because pretty much any development worth putting there is going to require infrastructure improvements.

 

Oh stop. When we're all citizens, having our collective tax cash wasted on a billionaires sport stadium, it's a travesty, an outrage, and a crime against humanity.

But, when we're all citizens, having our collective tax cash wasted on 18,000 welfare recipients that can't be located, well, it's just the Massachusetts way, no big deal, nothing to see here.

I'd rather we waste it on the SSS we can see, rather than the invisible welfare frauds we can't.

 

You make it sound like it's a debate. It's not. It's negotiation. When the people with the power to make things happen believe a deal is in their interest, they work to make it happen.

Kraft doesn't have to sell it to the local community, that's for Curtatone or whoever the local pol is to do.

Did he actually say that? I don't remember that.

And, anyway, calling it a lie is just being contentious. Any business deal could be framed as being "about the money", but that really just ignores all the nuances. It's about the money to the extent that any proposal has to have a reasonable path to profitability. But, there clearly other factors involved too (like location, transportation, parking, additional development prospects, control, etc.).

 

[Cough.. cough] Political [cough]

That said, I'm a supporter of state funded infrastructure projects, however I'm not sure a stadium is a priority. I'd be fine with increased taxation that would improve the MBTA, but that's a service that benefits everyone. A stadium? ...not so much