Revolution Stadium Groundbreaking "12-24 months" Part V

And I firmly believe that the New Cosmos are a scam to sell jerseys to stupid nostalgic New Yorkers.

Not that there's anything wrong with that

 

It's pretty clear that the Don is hell bent on getting a getting a team in NYC. You don't think the Cosmos named would be attached to that team?

 

I think that The Don would like The New Cosmos to be something. I just know that sooner or later it's going to come down to Brass Tacks and NYC2 is not going to be as viable as San Antonio, San Diego, Orlando, or Atlanta

 

Agree with the first part, but I'm not sold on the viability of any of those other cities.

In fact, I sincerely doubt an MLS team would fare well in Atlanta. It is a weak pro team sports market. Atlanta and San Antonio are two places I'd stay away from unless they could put together success NASL/USL entries.

Much as I'd like to think San Diego is a great untapped soccer market, why is it an empty market? I suspect there's as many obstacles there as NYC.

Orlando is the one place on your list that seems potentially ready-made, but the state of Florida has a flaky history with pro sports.

Meanwhile, if someone can figure out a team in NYC I have zero doubt that it would be a marquee franchise for the league.

 

Yes

 

I have doubts. I don't see what adding a team in NYC does to improve MLS. Even if they bring in well known DPs like Ronaldinho, the team still has to be successful on the field.

Are people who don't tune into MLS now going to start watching on television and continue to watch just because there is a team in NYC? I think local support for MLS franchises that is evident with the Union and SKC is much more meaningful than a NYC franchise.

 

How do you know how well a team in NYC would or wouldn't be supported? You have no idea. For all we know they may be able to draw some of the best crowds in the league.

 

The thing about Florida not being a great sports market (in all of the Florida markets) is that a lot of people who live there come from someplace else. I have friends I went to HS with who live near Tampa and go see the Rays, Lightning and Magic only when the Boston teams come to town, and of course, they root for their "home" team. It's the same way with transplanted New Yorkers and those from other cities.

The good thing about an Orlando (or Tampa or Miami) soccer team is that the transplants don't generally have a lot of loyalty to the MLS teams from back home, and just might adopt the local team as their own, assuming they are the kinds of people who would be inclined to support a soccer team at all.

As for the "new" Cosmos, if done right, they could have a very nice thing going with the Red Bulls. They would have to have an ownership in the Portland/Seattle mold, and be as ambitious as Red Bull in player acquisition. It could be fun to see a NY arms race, and if they are both +/- equally matched on the field, it could be something. The Cosmos would likely build somewhere east of Manhattan (Brooklyn or Queens, but not Lawn Guylin). There is room for 2 types of fanbases, and you see it in a lot of places. In Northern California, the Giants fans are stereotyped as "prawn sandwich" fans, while the Athletics are more blue-collar.

NY would definitely be do-able, but it would have to be under the right circumstances. If Orlando or someplace else with a viable plan comes along first, let them in, and then get NY in order. It won't end at 20 if there are deep-pocketed owners who have decent stadium plans in major markets who want in.

 

I know this will ultimately lead back to the many threads about the population in NYC, but it was pointed out earlier that successes in MLS are coming from cities that have an absence of other sports franchises (POR, SKC, etc.).

Besides all the other sports teams in NYC, there's an infinite amount of entertainment resources in NYC already. I just appreciate the MLS franchises that are making huge impacts in their communities. Placing an MLS team in NYC isn't going to make a dent there - it'll just be more noise, more clutter.

But the broader point is the argument that I have seen repeatedly that a NYC team will increase TV ratings and therefore draw more ad revenue. I don't really see that. I'm not going to watch the MLS team in NYC just because its the MLS team in NYC.

If it can attract quality DPs, play attractive soccer, and win, that'll be great.
If I was MLS, I would like to see how successful an urban SSS was in Boston before spending all the resources on NYC. The league should be pushing Kraft for a SSS in Boston as a case study in how to do it in NYC.

 

I believe it was 'within the next few months' which I give as 90 days, so we're about 30 into that

 

No need to look at Boston. NYC already has a much closer apples-to-apples case study and hard data with RBA.

• Beautiful new stadium - check
• Rebranded team - check
• Train accessible to 8+ million people - check
• Globally renowned players like Thierry Henry - check
• Cross-Marketing / awareness campaigns in the NYC metro area - check

I think a NYC stadium will mirror the success of RBA. If RBA can't sell out 20k every game today then a Cosmos stadium probably won't either.

I say this because of the target demographics of the modern MLS fan. Having a team called the Cosmos is irrelevant to today and tomorrow's MLS fan who have grown up with the league and are now in their 20s or even 30s. The "Cosmos" may spark a nostalgic memory or two for sports fans aged 50+ in my parents' generation who may have seen or read about those great teams back in the 70s. After seeing a "remember when" ESPN special on the Cosmos, they may even check out a game or two. But for the generation of fans that MLS is trying to woo - the young adult born c.1980 or later- the Cosmos brand means little and it would be a stupid miscalculation to think that alone is going to draw fans out to the park on regular basis.

IF they tick all the boxes above, generate a cross-town derby rivalry with RBNY in the same vein as yankees-mets, giants-jets etc, with a highly visible, ever-quotable and well-connected locally-based owner (think a NYC Steinbrenner passionate about soccer), then I think it can be as or more successful than RBNY.

 

/thread

RBA is 15 minutes from Manhattan. Distance/transport isn't an issue anymore.

If NY soccer fans refuse to go to a game because it's in New Jersey, they don't deserve a team.

 

I understand many of your points, but I mentioned a SSS in Boston as a case study for NYC because of the approach to build the SSS close to a city's core. For example, NYRB in Harrison, NJ, Union in Chester, PA, Galaxy in Carson, CA, and Toyota Park in Bridgeview, IL. These are major markets, but I think the stadium locations could have been closer to the urban core, like the visible skyline at the new BBVA Compass Stadium in Houston.

Simply put, I don't think RBA in Harrison, NJ is similar enough to compare to an MLS team in NYC.


I agree precisely about the Cosmos. I don't care about the Cosmos and its brand. The connection with the Cosmos and Pele does nothing for me. The MLS target demographic never saw Pele play and the Cosmos brand is virtually irrelevant.

 

Having lived in Manhatten and Brooklyn, I can say that you are misrepresenting the situation with the New Jersey Red Bulls. If they build it, they will come. They could probably name the team the Boston Red Sox and people would still show up.

 

15 minutes? You've obviously never lived in NYC. Google Mapping something shows nothing, especially for a city where everything the residents ever want and need is within a 5 mile stretch, so why would they go a distance triple that size?

RBA, even with the PATH, is not all that easy to get to. It's easier than it use to be. But Harrison is essentially as far away from NYC as Foxboro is to Boston. If you lived outside the internet, you would probably know that.

So, have fun with your cute little "/thread" jokes, but it's completely misrepresenting the situation.

 

What?... RBA is a 20 minute PATH ride from Manhattan.

 

Depends on where you start relative to the PATH station(s). It can take a while to get there, even from upper Manhattan, never mind the outer boroughs. Especially on the weekends when trains are less frequent and express trains scarcer still.

 

Yeah, while I've never been to RBA itself yet, I've gone to that area - from Times Square/MSG it's about a 25-30 minute subway ride, shorter than that if you catch the correct Metro fairly quickly. Not a 100% apples-to-apples comparison but that's no longer than most people's T commutes in the morning. I think Boston soccer fans would be beyond overjoyed if they got a stadium with that kind of public transit accessibility.

 

Tell that to anyone who lives outside of Soho

 

At the risk of calling you a liar: there is no way in burning fiery hell that you got from MSG to Harrison in 25 minutes takin the subway/path. It's a 40-45 minute ride even on Sunday morning when 85% of the city is sleeping and the other 15 still drinking.

Sure, WE would kill for that kind of convenience, but for a populous that never has to go outside of a few blocks to live almost their entire lives, that is not convenient at all. We can call them spoiled or whatever, but I'm sure people in the midwest would call us [alternate name for cat] for not driving a half hour to Foxboro...So, I guess I'm a [alternate name for cat].

 

I know the NYC subway like the back of my hand.

It's a 1 hour journey from midtown to Harrison at almost any hour of the day. It's no more than a 1 hour Journey from Crown Heights. It's about an hour and 15 from south Brooklyn.

Building a stadium in Manhattan takes maybe 15 minutes off the average commute. Building a stadium in Brooklyn makes it more accessible to people in Brooklyn, but harder to get to for people in Queens and Manhattan (an anywhere north).

It may bee 5 miles from WTC to Harrison, but that distance only takes 20-25 minutes on Path because there are only a handful of stops.

 

Ya, you really are a feline for refusing to drive to Foxboro.

 

Then saying Harrison is 15 minutes away is even stupider.

That's funny, because you wrote this:

What was all that "15 minutes" talk, or was that just for convenience and hyperbole to convince the unknowing?

Yeah, it's basically an hour on average for anyone, which, by NY standards, is not ideal. Those lazy POS' hate crossing the bridge to Brooklyn, let alone going across two bodies of water into Harrison NJ. That doesn't mean they don't deserve a team. It means that there isn't someone serious enough about servicing what the market wants.

First, it takes the minimum 20 minute PATH ride out of the question. Then, depending on where it is in Manhattan, there is is potentially even less time taken off the commute.

Then there is the possibility of taking cabs, which is essentially out of the question if the stadium is across a bridge.

Who gives a shit about a stadium in Brooklyn? I'm not Jay-Z.

Yeah, so what? That is entirely my point. It's AT LEAST 20-25 minutes from the WTC...then tack on the added commute for the people who don't live in SOHO, Tribeca, Financial etc...

It's not that easy to get to by NY standards. It might be by our standards, but so is Foxboro by Kansas standards.

 

The 15 minutes thing is my estimated difference in average travel time to RBA vs Pier 40. With Pier 40, you have to make additional transfers.

If on average, getting to a stadium in Manhattan takes 45 minutes, getting to RBA will take 60 minutes. If that 15 minute difference is inconvenient to some people, then they can suck my dick.

 

BALONEY sandwich. It's cutting down commuting times by far more than 15 minutes and is also in the center of a higher population base. Even from Harlem it's on transfer on the subway, and less than 40 minutes. From places like Brooklyn, Yonkers and Queens its an hour or so, but getting to Harrison from there is at least 20-25 minutes farther no matter where you are coming from.

There is a vast difference in putting a stadium in the middle of the population center, with direct subway access, cab service etc...and putting a stadium across three rivers, in another state, on the outskirts of the population center.