I agree with the general sentiment that you can't polish a turd. But like I said, I just don't believe everyone in The Fort is pulling in the same direction, so to speak. Too many Generals, not enough foot soldiers. I just think we could do a better job.
That may be, but part of that is because a high number of foot soldiers have been lost due to 17 years of mistreatment from the front office.
That may be right, but it shouldn't be a part of the discussion as to why this team is "not a major player in MLS" Which was the intent of JDEsq's comment. I know we are both just feeding the troll, but it's impossible to lay any blame on the SG's for the failures of this club.
Just my opinion, but if there were a "Blame Pie", I think the SGs would have a slice. It'd probably be a very, VERY small slice, but we'd have a slice.
At times, being in The Fort can absolutely be one of the coolest in-person experiences in New England sports. It's why if I go to the game without my kids, that's where I'll stand. Just my opinion, but when there are two or three different songs/chants going on at the same time because we can't get our crap together, and people are changing words to the songs to get a laugh out of their friends, and those who may not have known what they were getting into by sitting in Section 143 are belittled rather than encouraged to join in, it's kind of lame. As someone who's brought a lot of new people to Revs games in the last two years especially, that's my experience. Bring them to a game where The Fort is in good voice, and it's a great experience. Bring them to a game where everyone is doing their own thing, and it's lame.
OK, I will certainly give you that for sure. But in the big picture I really don't think that has much effect, or even any effect, on whether this team is a major player in MLS or not. That is entirely determined by the ambitions of the ownership and management staff, on the field and off.
If you've turned merely one person away, then you own a slice (albeit very small) of the blame pie. It may be an insignificant single drop, but what is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
I can't argue that. I guess I haven't articulated my point well enough. Regardless of how many people the SG's bring in or turn away, they cannot be blamed for selling a product and making them relevant within the context of the league. That can solely be laid at the feet of those in charge of running the club and selling it to the public. The SG's and people in the Fort could certainly be supplements to the game day experience, but the relevancy of the team is only built through the efforts of the franchise.
If you Love this game and understand its nuances, then probably, on quite a few occasions you had cringe worthy moments when it came to game day experience with the Revs! Sure, MLS in the early days could be blamed for much of it..clock, shootouts, etc! But, I certainly cringed when I heard RRRRrrrrrevolution...! And thought, where am I, at a monster truck rally? The league was new and for better or for worse(so they say at weddings) I took it in and hoped to God that little by little, things would change! I mean, WC94 had just ended a few years back and this Mickey-Chucky Cheese-Ringling Bros crap wasn't needed for that! Most of the 61k at the old Foxboro knew what was going on..or at the very least everyone sat with someone who did and could get a quick explanation of the goings on! But, years passed...MLS went ahead and changed. Always for the better..or at least we hoped! Cultures grew and others faded away. But here in RevsLand, while play took a huge Jump in the positive with some extremely lucky additions who could be counted in the 20best American category, the off field/customer relations antics continued to slide into the abyss! Countless die hards who began one of the SGs just gave up...Lots and Loads of regulars who kept looking for a different experience just stopped coming! Revs, a player? On the field, talk even amongst the Snobs and such was, yea..decent team..but in the long run it won't and can't be sustained with an Ownership that has no clue what the game is all about. Look at what happens when big teams lose big names...Other big names come in. A cousin of mine came from Italy on Vaca one summer and immediately pointed at Dempsey and Parky and asked how much were they paid..After the laugh, he said, they won't be here long! And once Clint left and we saw that in no certain terms, there wasn't ANYONE that would or ever take his place. We lucked out in a draft here and a draft there...but, those aren't going to happen all the time. This org has NO IDEA what its philosophy is..! I know that it is one of Apathy and Arrogance. Apathetic in that owners have a much more important agenda and just keep the reigns on for the fact they have a strangle hold on the local MLS market and they're not bleeding money because of it. And Arrogant, because they had the opportunity to be whatever they wanted and grow this brand to a definite top Sports team in our market. Revs are not a player in our market..While Soccer is very very huge, thanks to internet, cable/satellite and electronic games. If Krafty and Son had truly invested in this team and possibly gave a shit, there's no reason that our 20k avg in fans back in the 90's couldn't have been in the 30's at Gillette Cave...and the loss of Dempsey/Twellman and Ralston would have been replaced with X, Y & Z..who people would have known and got excited about. Great teams continue on because they reinvest in the talent that made them great. What did the Revs do? They promoted some lackeys from within during a very dark time and tried to market Nachos to the hispanic community, while simultaneously alienating a strong group of supporters with a planned and well thought attack..!! ppfft..!
The SGs are ineffective partly because of the disdain and contempt for all the other Revs fans, constantly calling the non-Fort fans "the Morgue." There's no real visible effort to try to grow the ranks of the SGs. They're just happy to show up with the numbers they have and just complain about everyone else. There's a captive audience at the entrance near the box office. Cut your tailgaiting 15 minutes earlier and go interact with the other fans. Show them the wonders of being part of a Revs SG.
As has been pointed out here hundreds and hundreds of times ... the term Morgue has been used mainly by people that actually don't sit in the Fort. Not that facts bother you. I for one, as someone in the Fort, don't use it. I, for one, have no "disdain and contempt" for non-supporters. There's a large amount of die-hards that sit elsewhere that support the team in their own manner, and while it sucks for stadium wide atmosphere, that's fine, that's what they choose. I'm so appreciative of the fact that you know of the inner workings of the groups. It's too bad that they never organize trips (on their own dime) to Revs home games. It's too bad that they don't try and sell tickets to games (open to anyone) for cheaper than the Revs. It's too bad that they don't provide rides, bring extra food/beer to help get people to show up. So glad you know all about us.
Questions for you ... what section do you sit in? Do you make sure to buy all the tickets in your section so it's sold out? Do you do your part?
This so hits the nail on the head. For all those who want to blame Bilello, or burns, or the SG's, the KADS, the NNN's, Slyde, Revs Girls, Marketing and Promotions, Liz Summers, 2002 MLS Cup Final, Turf, Foxboro, Fortgate, Nachoes, Soccer Moms, Passionate Supporters, Dispassionate Supporters, Dempsey, Parkhurst, Shalrie, Twellman not being replaced, Jose Moreno, Johnny Torres, Steve Nicol, Craig Tornberg, MLS, SUM, USSF, ADIDAS, Dicks Sporting Goods, The Boston Globe, The Herald, CSNNE, NESN and any other outlet for Revs fans angst over the years, realize one thing, and one important thing only: they are all linked to Bob Kraft. Either directly through relationships, hires etc...or indirectly through the apathetic approach to the team, league and sport. It's been 18 years since the man was announced as an official investor in the league and received the team for our region. It's been 18 years where the league and sport have passed him by so spectacularly that they are a complete after thought in American soccer. Kraft has all but destroyed soccer in this region, and it's ********ing disgusting. He can go ******** himself, kindly.
See all those empty seats throughout the stadium? This franchise has a fundamental problem at it's core, and that is the pathetic ownership that doesn't give a shit.
Atmosphere is on the fans. I think we all hate it when we have blaring loudspeakers telling us when to cheer. Many (most?) of us have expressed disdain for how gimmicky events like NBA games have become, where everything from cheerleaders, tee-shirts, dancing music, etc., etc. is all part of "entertaining" the fans. Soccer is a sport where the atmosphere and enthusiasm should be organic to the supporters of the team IMO - we shouldn't expect it from the organization and we shouldn't blame it on the facility.
This is possibly one of the best posts you've ever made. The SGs aren't at fault for the situation this organization is in, but they really aren't helping either. In general, the SGs and the fort have to open up a little bit. You need to be outgoing and reach out to the other fans. I think a supporters movement could make a huge difference. I know we all feel a lot of negativity on the inside, but we, as fans, need to put on a friendlier face. The nonconstructive negativity and disdain on this board and at games is a huge turnoff for the few fans that do interact with the "hard core" supporters.
But you already have to be part of the information loop to learn about these things. It's great that The Rebellion is selling discounted tickets for the home opener, but how would people know about that if they haven't already 'liked' that Facebook page? That's exactly what I mean about reaching out to the same people. The SGs need to promote the tailgates, the bus rides, etc. better. Otherwise, its just some cool benefits for a small clique.
This is ********ing incredible. The SG's are the problem, because Bob KRaft has spent the bare ass minimum on a franchise that is wallowing at the bottom of the league in performance on the field, in the stadium and in public perception? Honestly, you guys are spinning the most contrived weave I think I've ever seen on these boards. The ONLY reason this team is irrelevant is because the ********ing owner doesn't give a shit and doesn't invest enough time and money into creating a suitable product that people want to buy. Blaming the SG's is more detrimental to actually solving the problem, than the points you are making about the issues between SG's and other fans. Obviously things are not perfect in the supporter culture, but any of that negativity has been fostered by the abject failures of this franchise to do anything over the last 18 years. Let alone the fact that they are not the reason why this team has become so completely irrelevant that they aren't even a part of local or national discussions on any level. The small bigsoccer and twitter bubbles are the only places this pathetic franchise is ever even mentioned. Beyond that, they are utterly invisible to everyone, and that has nothing to do with anything the SG's have ever done or not done, and everything to do with the way the billionaire owner has ignored the team since it's inception.