Assuming the rumours are true, TFC will be spending $80-$100 million on their new signings, which leads to consideration of two points with respect to the stadium. 1. Having invested that much, would they be stupid enough to force these guys to play on fake grass just because of the Argos? The entire CFL isn't worth what TFC is spending on two players. 2. Will an expansion to 40,000 seats be enough to pay the bills? They should be looking at 60,000 seats. (...and no, I have no idea of the economics involved.) Discuss.
I thought there was talk of ~100 million going into a reno of BMO Field buried in all the TFC news today.
Unless that team is the 1977 New York Cosmos, I think it's safe to say that no North American club side in this day and age will see any SSS over 30-35, K capacity.
If that is the case, some of that money would have to be spent on winterizing the stadium as well. My understanding is that one of the reasons that they move the march games to rogers centre is because bmo's facilities aren't set up to handle the cold weather
I'd also hope that a good chunk of that goes towards a roof - I'm not thrilled about watching games in the rain.
roof is unlikely. Bathroom retrofit along with stadium seating. The big draw here isn't TFC's new signings..its the winter classic and how much money MLSE can make from that. If its all true then I can easily see a recoup of funds on that alone. Retrofit wont be in place for this season, or likely next anyway so it won't have any revenue impact on current new signings. for this year and next likely. Also, how do you think you will get 40000 into TFC consistently. I don't see it. 25, maybe as high as 30K on premium games tops.
If TFC was actually consistently competitive I think it's possible to draw 30k on average, with peak attendance at 40k. Pretty big if though.
I'd say a roof does more to shore up the attendance than anything else they can do. I'm kinda sick of rain games and am sorely tempted to watch the game on TV rather than get soaked, and TL seems to indicate that one is in the cards. They've also said that accommodating the Argos is a possibility as well, which was a hotly debated topic in prior years here. Personally, I've changed my opinion on this - and I'd be happy to see the Argos at BMO with a couple of caveats: A stadium footprint that preserves or improves the soccer sight-lines. This can mean a slightly larger field for soccer to accommodate a CFL size field. A field that can be interchanged between grass for TFC and either grass or field turf for the Argos.
I think you are vastly overrating the profit from the Winter Classic and how much of that gets into the hands of the host team.
Yep, with an average ticket price of ~$100 we'd need 25 Winter Classics to get to $100 million in revenue.
It is very complicated but I think a Winter Classic in a 40k venue in Toronto would have tickets at higher prices than that (average would likely be in the $150 - $2oo range).......and there is additional revenue (corporate type stuff) but yeah...just to get the total gross revenue up to $100 mil would need multiple games.....but then there is the expense to consider before you get to a net figure......and once you have done that, a certain amount of it goes to the player's union and the league takes a chunk...etc etc etc.....I think for MLSE to put $100 mil in their pockets we would have to do a lot of these games here.
True, I was just putting some nice round numbers to illustrate that one game isn't going to come close to recouping the capital expenditure.
After years of hell I am sure the stadium needs a roof.' I would like to repeat that 100 times. The next rain storm day I invite the brass to enjoy the dripping wet, body soaked pleasure of a roofless stadium.
im not just talking revenue from ticket purchases...tv revenue, merchandise sales, food, events and venues leading up to the game that no doubt would generate more revenue. Overall an event like the Winter Classic will bring in upwards of 50million into Toronto, with a ton of that landing in MLSE or NHL hands...so although 100M is unrealistic on one event... I know that, I meant more that it would recoup a good portion of that 100m...maybe like 40% of it
oh, and I kick in about 30 bucks in revenue each year with a bunch of guys to rent the facility for an afternoon at something like a $400 price tag. That should help toward the $100million retrofit..lol
not even close (IMO)....there is no special tv deal for the winter classic....that game is included in the tv packages that NBC/Rogers already have....it has contributed to those rights fees increasing but there is no extra revenue. Yes the host city benefits from tourism dollars but, unless that city is going to contribute to the expansion of the stadium, again, that does not help. We will probably never here what the Detroit Red Wings actually netted from the Winter Classic but if it added more than $10 mil to their bottom line I would be shocked.....and they were selling over 100k of tickets.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...rena-downtown-financing-city-council/4150229/ The Wings might not have made $100 million. But, the buildup to the Winter Classic couldn't have hurt.
... how do you think you will get 40000 into TFC consistently. I don't see it. 25, maybe as high as 30K on premium games tops.[/quote] I don't think it is a question of whether or not they can sell 40,000 tickets per game. They have to sell a minimum of 40,000 per game to pay for these signings and the others that will follow in subsequent years. Leiwicke and MLSE are just doing what the league wants the other big market teams to do in the future, the near future. Make big signings and raise the profile of the league, not just throughout North America but throughout the world. MLS will not be content just being a minor league in the world of North American sports. They intend to challenge for sports supremacy on this contintent. That means giving the NFL a run for its money. It may be years away, but the league is on that path in the long term. As to drawing the big crowds, why shouldn't Toronto fill a 60,000 stadium? If Seattle can do it, why not Toronto? This is the fourth largest city on the continent. We have filled the Rogers Centre for TFC games and meaningless friendlies between high profile teams.Perhaps 60,000 is out of reach at the moment but 40,000 is certainly attainable on a regular basis, especially if they cover the seating areas. The only certain reason it does not happen now is because TFC does not play in a stadium with that capacity. MLSE would be smart to consider future expansion possibilities from 40,000 to 60,000 in the coming renovation. It would save them money and probably all for a quicker expansion when the time comes.
MLS can become a prominent league in Canada, it only really has NHL and CFL to compete with (except in Toronto, but Toronto's a really huge market). In the US though, the competition is way stiffer. MLS will never be on par with NFL, and there's also MLB, NBA, NHL, NASCAR, CART etc.
The MLS doesn't have to be ahead of any other leagues or convert its fanbase. It needs to carve out a niche market and make enough money to make teams profitable. That's it. Whether it places 3rd, 4th or 5th in any particular city is irrelevant so long as the teams do well. It doesn't have to be on par with the NFL or MLB. To be honest, I think MLS' main competition is soccer on TV and the Eurosnob perception of it as minor league. You're far more likely to get a soccer fan to buy into MLS by continually improving the product than converting a fan of the NFL or the NBA and that's pretty much what's been happening and what I expect will continue to happen. There are a lot of people that watched a couple of MLS games 10 years ago and dismissed it with no idea how much better it is now.
This is true. MLS is still very much a work in progress, however. The trajectory is right but it still has a long way to go before it can rival any of the big soccer leagues. As for TFC, I think that with a winning team they could consistently fill a 30 to 40 k stadium. In losing years, however, there would be a lot of empty seats.