Reffing "unofficial" games

Discussion in 'Referee' started by R.U. Kiddingme, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Are there cases where our current USSF policy would cover legal expenses incurred?

    Example: The party alleges the referee was "negligent" in allowing a match to be played on a wet field in a youth match, and as a result, the player incurred a hospital stay. As you've mentioned, rarely will a referee be found negligent, but it is the issue of paying for astronomical legal fees.
     
  2. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Yes, insurance covers your defense costs, as well as any judgment or settlement. Of course, that also means that the insurance company may choose to settle with the plaintiff, to hold down their total out of pocket cost, rather than fight it out like the defendant may want to do.
     
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  3. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I could not locate anything relating to this topic on the US Soccer website under the referee link. Also, the policy (yellow form) that comes with your ID card in the mail does not seem to indicate legal expenses are covered, under the six items they list. Am I overlooking it on that sheet that was mailed or is there any detailed info out on the internet that we can view?
     
  4. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Nothing on the internet that I know of. But that's why we had to query their insurance carrier as the SRC.
     
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  5. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    Sorry I dumped that Policy 531-8 citation with no follow-up, but I had to work for a while.:( The point I was trying to make was this. I referee in an area that in addition to clubs that have adult programs and/or field competitive teams, there are a fair number of small clubs in rural areas that play only youth recreational soccer. These clubs register their players/teams through a USSF affiliate and use USSF registered officials, but a few years back they were threatened with no liability coverage if they did not pay for a licensed referee assignor. It was pointed out to the state referee committee that Policy 531-8 clearly stated that no assignor was required for recreational games (although I wouldn’t claim to know exactly how “house league” should be interpreted). In the absence of any specific language from the insurance carrier stating otherwise, assignors for youth recreational matches should not be required for insurance coverage.

    Perhaps I am taking my financial future in my hands by doing so, but if two teams present me with rosters indicating that they are properly USSF-registered recreational teams, I have no problem officiating their game whether it is a scrimmage, friendly, or league contest – even if a referee assignor has not been involved. When my kids were playing I always had my kit in the car, and almost every season I was asked to referee a match or two when some or all of a crew didn’t show.

    Competitive and adult matches are a different situation – by all means go through an assignor or don’t do the job.
     
  6. R.U. Kiddingme

    Nov 30, 2012
    iowa
    Acknowledged.
    And it should be pointed out, that there is a lot of pressure on the referee in this situation, both teams show up, fans show up, Grama and Granpa are all there, and you would have to be the one to tell everyone sorry, no show today.
    So to be sure, I'm glad that this situation ended the way it did for the referee.
    Just pointing out that there are certain things that are mandated by the lotg that are clearly spelled out and could lead to trouble if not followed.
     
  7. BlackBart

    BlackBart Member

    Mar 22, 2011
    The hole in what the clubs are doing is an unregistered assignor doesn't have access to the list of certified referees and doesn't know for a fact which referees are certified.
     
  8. R.U. Kiddingme

    Nov 30, 2012
    iowa
    Thanks everyone so far,
    it has cleared up a lot of uncertainty.
    I think the main thing with situation 1 is to make sure the game gets assigned to you preferably via means where there can be a record of this, email etc.
    I also feel we're pretty safe in #2 as long as the match is USSF affiliated and make an effort to contact the assigner.
    #3 is just going to be one of those times where you leave no room for debate, explain the situation, wish them well, and leave the area.
    I had to do something similar last year when a u-12 team showed up with no player cards, and had to inform them that I was not going to be able to officially start the match even though the coaches said all the other refs let them play without them.
    But geese, that sure was a lonely walk from the technical area back to my car!
    You develop a thick skin refereeing, but I hate like h@#l have to tell some poor kid they can't play that day.
     
    dadman repped this.
  9. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel for you and the only thing you can tell yourself is that it is the parents/coaches of the players have to be responsible and do their part and that the only one they have to blame is themselves. It wasn't you that made them not get their player cards.
     
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  10. RichM

    RichM Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Nov 18, 2009
    Meridian, ID
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This must vary by region - CalSouth has a list of "Registered Officials", including Risk Management status and USSF Grade, that is available on their website, to anyone.
     
  11. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    One of my early experiences was at a youth 'qualifying' tournament. The results of this tournament determined which division the teams would play in during the fall competitive season. Short games, probably only 2 x 20. "Games must start on time." "player cards must be laminated." I had an early afternoon game at a multi-field complex. One team is late getting to the field. They "barely" had enough players on the field at the scheduled kickoff time (maybe eight kids had tumbled out of the vans and jogged onto the field, no coach in sight) but they weren't check-in. The team manager hands me a sheet of player cards. They hadn't even been separated or signed yet, much less laminated. "Sorry. Cards not laminated." They promptly went to the tournament headquarters, where they were told that the ref was right. No laminated card, no play, and their grace period had now expired. They forfeit the game. And now the assignor has to get the referee who did their morning game to admit that he didn't enforce the tournament rules. :oops:
     
  12. R.U. Kiddingme

    Nov 30, 2012
    iowa
    I'm glad the headquarters supported your decision as the match referee, that's not always the case.
    Admittedly, I probably would have made them sign and separate the cards and given them a brief lecture and allowed the match to continue, but that's me.
    As long as they have the photos or whatever pertinent info.
    However, when you follow the rules that are printed and black and white, you are always going to be in the right, and the organizers should always back up the decisions that you are charged to make.
     
  13. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009

    This is organization specific. Any well-run organization that has a "no-laminate, no-play" policy will support the referees who enforce it and will be upset with those that don't. (And will be very specific about whether or not there is a first game grace for having the cards if they aren't laminated.) If your orgaination actually expects them to be laminated as a condition of playing, and you let them play anyway, you've become "last week's ref" and are undermining the enforcement of the system.
     
  14. QuietCoach

    QuietCoach Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Littleton, MA
    Whether or not to start a match without pass cards and/or rosters is usually covered by the written procedures of the league. Some leagues want referees to go ahead and play, no matter what, and include full details in the match report.

    Despite the discussion here, I have not been convinced that the risk of injury or lawsuit in scenario #3 is significantly elevated. I have been willing to work a "friendly" in a recreational youth setting and would probably do it again. In my view, soccer is at its best when players and coaches are enjoying the experience without "win at all costs" tunnel vision. When the outcome doesn't count, bad behavior is less likely. If it does occur, you can always terminate the friendly match. Besides, many leagues would go ahead and uphold the consequences for any cards or ejections issued by a duly-assigned referee in a scheduled match, even if the match got recorded as a forfeit and played as a friendly.

    - QC
     
  15. R.U. Kiddingme

    Nov 30, 2012
    iowa
     
  16. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    It's not so much a matter of the risk of injury or litigation being higher in that scenario. If anything, as you point out, it might even be somewhat less. The point rather is simply to be aware that if you ref that match, there's a good chance you're doing it without benefit of insurance coverage in the unlikelihood event that you do draw a lawsuit. For many of us, that's not such a big deal (especially those of us who have a notion that we might have some coverage under our homeowner's or other policy).
     
  17. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    For me, I always walk away from #3.
    Not for liability reasons, though that is what I tell them.
    But, because it is pointless; you are reffing a pick up game...? What are your foul standards? DOGSO? What if tempers do rise and players get mad at you? What if there is that one guy?
    You are putting your good name on the line for no reason.

    Go home and work on your lawn.
     
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  18. QuietCoach

    QuietCoach Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Littleton, MA
    When this happened last year on a HS Girls Rec 8v8 match, we put the promising 16-year-old who had been scheduled as AR2 in the middle and shortened the time. Our league doesn't usually have High School age kids centering HS matches, and it was a good experience for him.

    We were getting paid, and the players wanted to play. In a Recreational flight, without playoffs or formal team standings, the results don't count toward anything anyway. Think of it as pick-up soccer with coaches and uniforms (OK, matching T-shirts) and referees.

    - QC
     
  19. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A few questions:

    1. What does High School Rec mean, HS age or actual school teams?

    2. When what happened, situation 1,2, or 3.

    3. Did you wear badges?

    4. Is this a USSF sanctioned rec league?
     
  20. R.U. Kiddingme

    Nov 30, 2012
    iowa
    Yes that is one thing that I have learned, you either be the ref 100%, or you be something else, instructor, advisor, teacher, but don't ever be "sorta" referee.
    Yardwork?!
    So your spouse or SO thinks you're busy at a game, and you spend that 90min going home to do yardwork?!o_O
     
  21. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    This one is always worth another look:

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/QVluOUhW_ao
     
  22. QuietCoach

    QuietCoach Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Littleton, MA
    HS-age, situation #3, USSF-affiliated league offering both Rec and Competitive play.

    At the appointed start time, one team lacked the minimum number (6 players, per league bylaws for 8v8). 10 minutes later, we declared a forfeit. The teams decided to play anyway, loaning a couple players from one team to the other, and asked us to stay on. Another 20 minutes later, 3 more players showed up, but the borrowed players decided to continue. While this sounds chaotic, everyone had such positive attitudes that it was actually fun for all involved.

    Did we do it "right"? I'm not sure. Here's what those bylaws (the applicable Rules of Competition) have to say on the subject:

    Each team should arrive at the field at least 30 minutes prior to the scheduled time for the game. If either team is not prepared to take the field by 5 minutes after the scheduled start time or the availability of the field, that team shall forfeit with a 4-0 loss. If the team does arrive before the referee leaves the area, then the referee may conduct a shortened game (which will not count toward competitive standings, i.e., the forfeit stands), utilizing the time until the next scheduled game.

    No, we didn't remove our badges, nor do I see the point. Such an action would set the tone for a lawless event and make it harder to impose order. Besides, as I said, I fully expect that the league would have upheld our disciplinary sanctions against coaches or players. It wasn't necessary; you've never seen such a civil and sporting bunch of girls and coaches, smiling as they kicked the ball around on a tranquil fall evening.

    - QC
     
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  23. wykell

    wykell Member

    Jun 9, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. Definition of blood money - if you do it, you're on your own and you should know that.

    2. If you're certified, call your assignor - make sure that you don't have conflicts and both teams agree to you, and we're good to go, official game.

    3. If some players get "tanked off" about you leaving - screw'em and walk away. However, I HAVE had situations like this before where I was asked to stay, so I grabbed the two captains and told them: "listen - this is an unofficial game, I don't need to be here, BUT, if you want, this can be a good learning experience for everyone. If anyone gives me grief about a call I make, I'll hand them the whistle for 10 minutes and take their place on the pitch, which is probably WAY worse than a yellow card for dissent. If you guys have a legitimate question as to why I'm calling things or NOT calling things, this is the absolute BEST time to come and ask me, because there is no pressure in this situation. Finally, if anyone gets hurt, you guys are witness to each other agreeing right now that you take all responsibility and I'm not liable."

    Now, I know that last part might not hold up too well in court, but you have to remember that the beautiful game is played "unofficially" a whole heck of a lot more than it is played "officially" and I like to think that if I can impart even the slightest iota of "oh, so this is what it's like to have to ref" to even a single player, then I've done some good for the game, and I'm usually willing to take the chance.
     
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  24. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I feel the advice of many others would have been a better strategy, that is leaving because lets face it they don't need you to have fun, based on your bylaws you quoted it sounds like your league offers to cover you in the event this happens. Whether USSF would pick up the bill, I don't know.
     
  25. Chas (Psyatika)

    Oct 6, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Based on your ROC, you correctly started the match and should definitely keep your badge on. everything you did was within those bylaws.

    The ROC for the league in my area do not contain such a provision, so i would avoid taking the match.
     

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