Referee "Meltdown" (Youtube Video)

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Slaskwroclaw18, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I can't help but think the referee bears a large part of the blame for this situation in the second video. He should not have continued the match with both the AR and the coach still involved after the AR walked off the first time. It's not clear from the video who should have gone in the first place, but sending one or the other would have left the AR's career salvageable. Continuing gave us a fairly predictable result.
     
  2. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Easy fix. Switch diagonals.
     
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  3. R.U. Kiddingme

    Nov 30, 2012
    iowa
    Ya, I was shocked that the Center just told him to get back to the touch line (after the first meltdown) w/o even finding out what was going on.
    This refs career should be ended though, far too unstable for the mental demands of reffing.
     
  4. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The initial video - poorly handled by the ref. the intial actuion by her was spot on - not sure whe he was dismissed but i dont care. whatever the reason i support it. but she kept going back and goading him. those of you who said you admired her "spark" are misguided. dont mistake spark for a stupid action which she committed over and over. the fact that she had to engage in an argument only means that she messed up. note that the girl comment (which infuriate me) came after she started arguing with him. now imagine instead of being verbal he got in her face nose to nose, or even getting phyisical. note that he WOULD have still been wrong and should be tossed in a cell and neutered, but as a ref do you want that to happen if when you are a 100% in the right?
     
  5. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Yes it was, and she missed it. So what? A missed call, especially a simple throwin at that level (call it trifling if you want) is not a reason for a parent to make any comments. My guess is there is stuff before the video that was over the line. She implies it with statements about he's over the line all game. Nobody tosses a parent for what is heard on the beginning of the video, there's more to it.

    I laugh when I hear a coaches defense for abusing referees is "they called a bad game".

    But, who cares. She stood up for what's right and tossed him. She then proceeded to make things worse by arguing and "escorting" him. Toss him, walk away, inform coach (or just go inform coach).
     
  6. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    To be fair I think ASD comment was not justifying the behaovior but it was just the referee (i think she/he is a ref) coming out. couldnt resist :) kinda like an English teacher cant help but correct bad grammar sometimes.....

    Second bold section - I tell anyone within earshot (whter I am playing or coaching) one of two things- Manchester United has me lined up for when Ferguson retires so no need for me to argue with the ref and mess that up OR Manchester United already has someone lined up for Ferguson and it is not me so it cant get much worse, Make the best of a "bad" decision and move on.

    Nobody knows what the hell i am talkign about half the time so they just avoid saying anyhting else. :)
     
  7. uniqueconstraint

    Jul 17, 2009
    Indianapolis,Indiana - home of the Indy Eleven!
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The original poster just uploaded more - sort of a lead-in to the finale...enjoy the interaction!

     
  8. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My skin isn't that thick, but I have a hearing problem so that balances it out. I don't hear half the stuff people say about me. That's the hard part about U10 games. It's so up close and personal. Don't try to explain your decisions. Just set the boundries. "I will be calling this game today, sir. If you are intent on doing so, you can do it from the parking lot."

    One of my favorites ref comebacks said in fun to a local coach, but I think it would fit this situation.

    "Do you want to see the rest of this game or just hear about it." :cool:
     
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  9. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we need more referees like her and that, while a real asset at this level, is probably ready to move up.
     
  10. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    Ok, so I've been thinking more about this situation and had to share a little bit of my thoughts. I have read (and agree) people saying that she should have handled it differently -- remaining calm and professional. Many times I am the one advocating taking the high road. We're always expected to not react and, when we do react with emotion, we're looked at as having lost our cool. Yet, when parents/coaches/fans/players act like complete clowns we are reminded that, hey, it's an emotional game and stuff happens. Not saying life is fair, but I think this is a two way street and sometimes we need to kick back a little.

    Sometimes when I'm on the pitch and I have a player go chest to chest or say something completely over the top I'm reminded of this quote:

    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split." (Robert E Howard, "Tower of the Elephant")

    To me its a funny fact of life that simply because we are in a certain social situation (I'm a referee in a soccer match vs bar) the outcome is altered (red card vs words/actions/escalation/police involvement). The expectations are completely different, as well, because if someone questions my mother's heritage in a bar and I adjust their jaw it would be fairly within the social norm. Now, if I do that during a game...

    /rambling
     
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  11. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    billf I have to respectfully disagree. while bold, i think this shows she is not yet ready to move up. if this is how she handles this, then moving up where opportunities for this kind of stuff increases then she has to master (learn a bit more) before moving up.

    here is my reasoning - this guys looks like a perpetual douche so if he was watching two rats dance he would be the same way. so you will get one like these every oncve in a while. but as you get older you get more contentious situations on the field which may translate off the field into the stands. more things to argue about equals more opportunities for engaging. if this is how she engages then we will see more situations escalate.

    based on the first video she seems to want to stick it to him. and the more she argues the mroe he responds and the more she wants to stick it to him. in doing so she aggravated an already bad situation.

    @Paper - yeah we have to look at both sides. but a lot of the evidence of this guy's douchebagginess happened becasue she insisted on engaging.

    i actually have thought about this deeply. not sure why. i am surprised too that i came out at this end of it given how i am. if a ref ever looks at me sideways i am apologizing up the ying yang whether i did something or not. if i was that guy and she dismissed me i would be saying sorry as i grabbed my stuff and left. but that is just me i guess. but as i watch the clip i cant help but think how much of her actions contributed to his outbursts
     
  12. uniqueconstraint

    Jul 17, 2009
    Indianapolis,Indiana - home of the Indy Eleven!
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with this - as an old military review (allegedly) said: "this person has the six pack, but not the plastic thingy that holds it all together". That said she's on the right track and that is encouraging, too many younger refs shrink to this challenge.

    I dunno, I think this guy was a train wreck waiting to happen -If the other end of the confrontation had been another adult, a local board member, an older referee...I don't think his behavior would've been different. He HAD to get the last word in, the last jab. He would've left just as slowly (if at all) and would've been jawing the whole way. You could say her actions may have contributed, but I think regardless of her behavior he was likely on the course to being removed.

    Put a guy like this in the crowd at a high school game and, given the other noise, you might not even hear him. At a U10 match like this - someone else said it first - the quiet makes everything seem like a shout.

    I've done a lot of reflecting on this one too - I was quite the handfull as a younger player and coach, got quiet with more reason, experience, maturity. That said I don't think I ever crawled on a younger ref, in a way it didn't seem sporting, I guess. This guy makes me feel bad on behalf of all parents, and angry at him at the same time.

    I wish I knew where in the country this was, hope the SRA has seen this.
     
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  13. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This is my issue with how she handled it. Let him have the last word. One of my mentors as a baseball umpire gave me a piece of advise for dealing with coaches. Let him have the last word, because you have the last say.

    Once she had dismissed him, there was no need to say anything else to him. Good on her for tossing him. Work a little on the execution.
     
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  14. iron81

    iron81 Member+

    Jan 6, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    You can ask in the youtube comments what state this is. The videographer will probably tell you.
     
  15. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Last bold first - I think that is the problem, we are so digusted by his behaviour that we are not adequately seeing how she could have contributed. the behaviour was already there (i dont think this was a one off, i think this is how he is, period) but she unwittingly facilitated it. and then is disgusted by it.

    Second bold part - i am okay up until the point of removal (and maybe one trip after that) anything beyond that is asking for trouble. note that i am not saying she was wrong. HE was wrong. just that unwittingly she gave him more opportunity to be that way and it could have ended up much worse. I just want to beleive she would look back and say how could i have prevented this (the dialogue AFTER the removal, i think that is where my discomfort with how it was handled lie)

    First bold - no doubt. just need a little fine tuning.
     
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  16. SparkeyG

    SparkeyG Member

    Feb 25, 2002
    Mokena, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From his public YouTube profile he is from Florida.
     
  17. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I don't think there is any disagreement that the mechanics of getting this parent away from the game could have been better. Absolutely. But we have all seen far too many of our young colleagues wither up and die after dealing with a parent or coach like this. The ratio of suffering youth referees to youth referees that are willing and able to dish it back is about 1,000,000 to 1. I think we're just taking vicarious pleasure in seeing the dad get what he should get.

    I'm even willing to label the "You just weren't brought up right" line as a spot on insight, especially after he proved it with the snarky racist stuff! I'm not Mr. Politically Correct, but this guy is like Foghorn Leghorn without feathers.
     
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  18. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    +1 I had the parent of a young ref explain that the young ref had done the best thing with extended verbal abuse by ignoring it. And I had another young ref (who was in a more challengnig game than she should have been) stand up for comments directed at her AR but then didn't pull the trigger on tossing the coach for the comments directed at her -- because she was fighting back tears and didn't think she could actually do it. It is hard to be a young ref and have to manage the irresponsible behavior of adults. We all need to help give young refs tools that they can use. Perhaps the best tool in this case would have been what's been mentioned -- engage the coach, not the parent, and instruct the coach to remove the parent. But step one is having the courage to address the issue at all.
     
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  19. camconcay

    camconcay Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Feb 17, 2011
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the other clip (the earlier confrontation) was handled much better, she said her piece (a little too much saying I guess although she probably thought a little education would help the idiot) and turned her back and got on with the game.

    She was tired of it, and I can sympathize that she wanted her pound of flesh for putting up with him that long, however, nothing good is going to come of me (her) arguing with a parent so dismiss, turn and inform the coaches, write a few notes from the other side of the field as you watch him pack up and leave, and get on with the game.
     
  20. techguy9707

    techguy9707 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Antelope, CA
    I guess what I saw was a referee getting very irritated and having too much of a conversation with the parent. This brought more irritation to herself and ratcheted up the tension and provoked more response from him. I also saw that when she realized she was feeding it, she started talking less and started pointing. I know the feeling and I have had the same mental conversation with myself. It's tough to back down in the heat of the moment. It also appears that the coaches were on the other side of the field so were not able to assist in the process of getting the parent to shut and leave. I have tried to involve the coaches more in managing the parents.
     
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  21. uniqueconstraint

    Jul 17, 2009
    Indianapolis,Indiana - home of the Indy Eleven!
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't disagree with anyone who says this young ref could've handled it better, and I also don't disagree with those who got a little kick out of seeing her rip up a rough parent (sitting in the cheap seats means I get to play all sides of the issue ;))

    The part I bolded above has yet to be mentioned - that last clip was, what, a couple of minutes? I submit those coaches weren't able to assist because they had to journey to Oz to find their courage.

    As much as this ref let things go too long she didn't have any other adult willing to wade into the swamp.
     
  22. techguy9707

    techguy9707 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Antelope, CA
    I guess an addendum to that is that I don't expect the coach to "volunteer" to help, I instruct the coach to make it happen. He or she can send an assistant over to the other side if need be. This removes the direct parent to ref interaction and escalation. It may also make it easier for the referee to think as she moves away from the parent over to the coach to request the coaches support/assistance. I then go back to refereeing the game with the hope I can ignore (not hear?) the parent.
     
  23. uniqueconstraint

    Jul 17, 2009
    Indianapolis,Indiana - home of the Indy Eleven!
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Totally agree, and that's the right way to do it. I'm just surprised (perhaps I shouldn't be) that not one coach, other parent, etc. came over, perhaps I should be more positive and say because this parent wasn't physical, cursing, etc. they didn't feel the need.
     
  24. us#1by2006

    us#1by2006 Member

    Jun 21, 2002
    Who here did a better job ejecting the 2nd parent than they did the 1st?

    I did. I think she will too.

    IMHO, the primary way that referees learn is by making mistakes, then reflecting on them, and resolving not to do it that way again.

    For ambitious youth refs, I think you have to encourage them to get out there, do their best and learn from what happens.

    At least, that is what I have done with my 12 year old grade 8 who has 60 games in the center under his belt this year.
     
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  25. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Well put.

    (In my example of the referee who was unable to pull the trigger on the coach, the referee in question asked to be on the field the following week. I was proud of her ... she's my duaghter.)

    I also think that in addition to learning from our own mistakes, we get better when we can take the time to learn from the mistakes of others, too -- which is one of the perks of this forum.
     
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