[READ THE FIRST POST] The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

Discussion in 'Japanese Club Football' started by goru_no_ura, Oct 20, 2009.

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  1. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    So exactly what are you talking about when you say "semiprofessional"?

    If youre talking about a team like Machida Zelvia, forget it. The same points apply that were mentioned further above. If youre good enough to play there, then you would already be on a team in your own country and earning a lot more money, so youre better off staying there.

    On the other hand if your talking about a team like Vertfee Takahara Nasu . . . or even Kamatamare Sanuki for that matter, then "semiprofessional" simply means that youll get an equal share of the team's prize money for wherever they finish in their league. That amount will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 ~ 100,000 yen, maximum, which is not enough to have to be declared to the government as a second income source. Consequently, any questions about visa status, governing bodies and so on are meaningless.


    If you are referring to the latter, then quit wasting time asking about it on a message board frequented mainly by other gaijin, and get out in the park and start asking people who can actually give you useful information
     
  2. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    One thing somebody might want to think about seriously is to become a pro-referee in Japan. The pay is awesome, and the competition is not as tough...
     
  3. Vendo Thefastlane

    Jul 16, 2009
    Mito, Ibaraki
    Club:
    --other--
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    The route is simple enough but far from easy. Practice player with a regional or prefecture league club while working out the whole living in Japan thing. Any team that could afford to pick you up and provide full-time playing work would sponsor the visa themselves. Alternatively, having good managerial representation with Japanese connections. That's it.

    So you'll either be in Japan on any visa and use that, or get the entertainment route through your manager or a team picking you up. Not much to figure out, I think.
     
  4. Shizuoka

    Shizuoka Member

    Mar 12, 2008
    Shizuoka, Japan
    Club:
    Shimizu S Pulse
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    And the level is shite.

    ;)

    Not always, I know, but you set me up so nicely for that. :)
     
  5. artml

    artml Member

    Liverpool FC
    Ukraine
    Jul 11, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Joining the "bottom bottom level" as prefectural or even municipal leagues is not that interesting to discuss I think – as you have fairly mentioned, you can play this level of football next door with your friends and it isn't necessary at all to travel halfway the world to Japan.

    But what if we still consider the final goal as professional level of (let's say) J2? It is obviously that a certain gaijin player should chose something above the regional leagues to start with, and he probably won't make it immediately to the "almost professional" associate member for the reasons you've explained on the previous pages. That still leaves him some "semiprofessional" JFL clubs to join though, the likes of that I have already mentioned above – and exactly this thin level between "hard-to-join-but-desired pro" and "easy-to-join-but-useless bottom" was the main point of my interest.

    Theoretically, if you play in JFL you don't need to be that good from the start but on the other hand, it's close enough to J. League so if you are that good to take a step onto the next level of football you probably will be noticed. Especially if you will spend your one-two seasons to establish yourself in Japanese football and to make some necessary connections.

    This is like of having the long-time courting instead of love from first sight. Time, money and efforts spent will differ of course, but either way you will be married at the end.
     
  6. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Look, my stance is, and always has been, that this thread is a stupid waste of time because nobody who uses BigSoccer (or the Internet in general, to be honest) as their source of information ever has or ever will play football in Japan at any level besides the "bottom bottom level".

    I think the word "semiprofessional" may have somehow convinced you that there is some place in this world where people are able to make an actual living playing football, without being that talented. The truth is a lot uglier.

    In Japan, "semiprofessional" refers to the club, not the players. When you talk about "semiprofessional" teams, the sad truth is that even 90% of the Japanese players on them are probably 22 years old, living with their parents and working from midnight to 8am at the Seven-Eleven so they can play football for a few more years, before they get a "real job". They are NOT MAKING MONEY playing football. Even if we take the very best teams below J2 - Machida Zelvia for example - yes, they have 5-7 players who are of the quality of Ryosuke Kijima, and who probably earn somewhere around 3-4 million yen a year. Thats enough to scrape by on even if you dont have a second job. But the rest of the players earn less than 1 million yen a year (probably MUCH less). They have other jobs. They are NOT professional footballers.

    And yet even at this level, the quality of competition is formidable. Particularly for foreign player spots. Do you think you are as good as Amaral? Because thats who is holding down a foreigner spot at a team even further down the ladder than Zelvia.

    In Japan, anyone who earns a meaningful amount of money playing football is a TRUE professional, and of professional quality. Amaral, Kijima, Fumitake Miura, Hideki Nagai, Norio Omura, Tatsuhiko Kubo..... I could go on for another 50 lines. Apart from those players (who are all earning bare-minimum wages because they want to play football for a few more years), the vast majority of players on the team are TRUE amateurs, and will probably always remain that way.


    BOTTOM LINE --------------------------
    If money isnt an issue, you can play football in Japan. Quit asking questions about it on a message board, and start looking for a team.

    If money has even a tiny, marginal, miniscule role in your considerations of playing football, STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. If you were good enough to earn even 1000 yen playing football in Japan, you wouldnt be looking for information about it on the Internet. Youd be asking your agent to do the work for you.
     
  7. artml

    artml Member

    Liverpool FC
    Ukraine
    Jul 11, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Maybe I hadn't explained my point clear enough. This thread is not a source of "how to get into a J. League team" information for me simply because I don't have, and never had, any intentions to play football more seriously than on the weekend with my friends – in Ukraine, in Japan and wherever. So thank you for kindly explaining for the third time that "If you were good enough to earn even 1000 yen playing football in Japan, you wouldnt be looking for information about it on the Internet. Youd be asking your agent to do the work for you." – I have understood that long ago and I'm not the guy who asks for it in the first place.

    What I'm trying to find out in this thread then – maybe not in a straight way – is how the JFL and lower tiers of Japanese football are organized, what are the requirements to players, how "professional" they are and is there such a big hole between them and J. League. So I'm really thankful for the second part of your post, it was much more to the point of my interest and very interesting to learn.

    But I still want to continue to discuss the foreigners in JFL. You said it's almost impossible for a foreigner to get into a serious club even on this level, but when I lurked through all the JFL teams' websites I have found two players: Hamed Koné and Michael James, both being 22 years old gaijins. I don't know whether these guys do have jobs or do they make enough by playing football but both of them definitely do not appear to live in their parents' basement. Maybe you would know more about them though, and I'd really like you to share the knowledge then.
     
  8. Vendo Thefastlane

    Jul 16, 2009
    Mito, Ibaraki
    Club:
    --other--
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Hamed Kone is an Ivorian professional player playing for a fully professional team, Gainare Tottori. Tottori's former manager was a Thai, who had previously coached Chonburi FC in Thailand. Kone had played for them and he followed his old boss to Japan. Tottori pays as well as Thai's top league, which isn't exactly much, but enough to get by with in Japan.

    Michael James is half New Zealander, half Japanese. He attended school in Japan. He keeps connections to his New Zealand nationality as he would be MUCH more likely to be called to that national team than Japan's, but would consider taking Japanese nationality at any time as opposed to having a "child of Japanese national" visa that allows him more or less a normal life in Japan.

    So, you see that there is always a connection there. Foreigners can't get in without one.

    James's Zweigen Kanazawa also is a nearly or fully professional team. Takafumi Akahoshi, who played well for Mito in 2008 before going back to Urawa for 2009, had a chance to come back to Mito after being released. He went to Kanazawa instead... because the money was better.

    Many teams can afford to pay more than others in the same league which is why they are considered yearly favorites to join the promotion races. My friend who played for Tochigi SC in the JFL made less money starting there than when he later started for Fukushima United in the regional league. There are also several prefecture league teams with many years before they can play in a "pro" league, such as SC Sagamihara or Tokyo 23 Soccer Club. Those teams have full-time pro players who were J. League players last year.
     
  9. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Thanks for clarifying your interest, but really, if thats the point of the discussion, why on earth didnt you post it on the "Non-League Club Teams" thread? I guess its too late to do anything about it, but I hope you understand that the annoyance I might have expressed above relates to seeing this contemptible thread rear its head.... AGAIN.... If any of the mods can find a way to bury it again (hopefully with a stake through its heart) I would appreciate it and we can continue the discussion on the Non-League thread.

    Anyway, if this is what youre interested in discussing, I know quite a bit about these guys. You seem to have misconstrued what I wrote above, though. There are quite a few foreign players in the lower leagues. Its just that none of them were people who suddenly showed up in Japan on a whim and tried to try out for a team.

    Michael James Fitzgerald ("Michael James") is a young New Zealander who has lived in Japan for quite a while. I dont know the exact details of how he arrived here but I do know that he was here from an early age (ie, a minor). But the most important point is that he does not belong to Zweigen Kanazawa. He is an Albirex Niigata player who has been loaned to Zweigen to give him experience. So although he might be getting some sort of compensation direct from Zweigen, I am fairly sure that he is being paid by Albirex.

    Hamed Kone is a fully professional player who attracted interest from a number of J.League clubs when he played in the ACL for Chonburi - a Thai club. I know that Sagan Tosu was also looking at him. How he got to Thailand is another story, and one that I dont know very well. Nevertheless, this is clearly a case of a guy who went through all the proper stages of a pro career and was brought to Japan by a club who scouted HIM, rather than the other way around. He is one of the "FULL PROFESSIONALS" on the club, and not someone who has to work part time (though I strongly doubt that he makes any more than a low-level factory worker)
     
  10. Bass0r

    Bass0r Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Tokyo/N. Velidhoo
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Interesting how those two replies are quite different.

    And sheesh, Matsu, why so bitter about this thread if the subject matter has changed to a more broad subject? It's not just about people "coming over the the country with the sole intention of playing football for a Japanese team" anymore. No need to get so uppity. I don't see the point of discussing this subject (the one we're currently on, not the original reason for the thread) in another thread if this one is just as suitable, if not moreso.

    If the question doesn't bring any interest, so be it. Leave it alone, don't go on a tirade. But it clearly has some peoples' ears pricking up, so it should just be accepted.


    Anyway, ignoring all of that; how actively are these kinds of teams interested in foreigners (not talking about teams like FC Korea, naturally)? Passing interest, really intrigued, or not wanting them at all? It's obviously going to be different cases for different teams, but is there any feeling that it can help boost a team for the same reasons a J. League team would actively look for foreigners?
     
  11. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    :rolleyes:

    Woops. Vendo beat me to it. :eek:
     
  12. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Because I receive 20-30 e-mails a month from idiots who think they can play football in japan, and who will continue writing again and again if I dont answer them. Like its my duty to tell them that theyre clueless losers. Ive got three of them in my junk mail box right now!! :eek:

    Yes, it does piss me off to see this thread. Anything that might possibly contribute to more people thinking that they can play in Japan (when they clearly arent playing in their own country) is an annoyance, and I want to make wure that every page of this thread has very strongly worded posts to discourage people, if only because it MIGHT help reduce the volume of e-mail cluttering up my in box.

    So dont give me your attitude, son!
    The points that artml is NOW talking about have nothing to do with "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" . They belong on the Non-League thread. So either take it there, or have the mods move it there. Dont revive a thread that never should have seen the light of day in the first place. :mad::mad:
     
  13. Bass0r

    Bass0r Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Tokyo/N. Velidhoo
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    And if there's a thread like this that already documents all the answers, they don't have to e-mail people to find out this information.


    I should say the same.
     
  14. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    So now youre saying that the discussion WAS about the chances of playing in Japan? I thought you JUST got done telling me that the discussion this time is about the characteristics of Non-league teams, and NOT about actually trying to join a Japanese team.

    If you cant figure out why Im annoyed and exasperated, then youre even more clueless than the guy who started this thread. Quit digging yourself in deeper. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Bass0r

    Bass0r Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Tokyo/N. Velidhoo
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    That wasn't even implied in my post. It's about covering every aspect, every league, every idea of playing football in Japan (no matter the playing level or reason behind it).
    All I stated was that this thread, if it covers as much as possible about everything in this regard, will even help you and your e-mail inbox, "so stop complaining."

    And the guy who started the thread is Goru. You should probably stop calling him ignorant and clueless like you have a few times in this thread over the last few days.
    I don't even own a shovel.
     
  16. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    No - the guy who started the thread was Janka. And dont pretend you dont know that. If you read the first two pages of this thread, the information was actually a LITTLE bit useful. If you read through that section you can see two things- 1) that anyone who has a fairly high level of playing ability DOES have options to try out for a team if they are interested, but . . . 2) that no foreigner who has ever approached playing in Japan without a professional agent to represent him, or a pre-existing connection to a club has ever made it past hurdle #1 of the 1500m high hurdles race.

    Ever since those first two pages, though, the thread has descended into posts from less and less competent people trying with increasing desperation to find some faint whiff of hope that they can still play football in Japan.

    I got the sense that this is what artml was doing with his recent post that revived the thread. Now HE, at least, is saying that he doesnt want to talk about "I want to tryout for a J.League team", but rather, to find out more about the structure of nonLeague teams. If thats the case, the discussion belongs on the NonLeague thread. If there are still people who think there is a point in discussing "I want to tryout for a J.League team", then scroll up to where it says " ---------Bottom Line---------" and re-read it.

    There really is nothing more to discuss on the issue of "I want to tryout for a J.League team". If you have some other issues that you want to discuss, then make a thread that isnt titled "I want to tryout for a J.League team".
     
  17. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    I'd setup a filter that includes some keywords (like "tryout" for example) and automatically responds with a msg along the lines of:

    "It appears that you want to tryout for a team in Japan and are seeking my advice. I get many of these emails every month and cannot possibly help you.
    However, there is another source of great advice here:
    [link to this thread; perhaps directly to one of your most "pessimistic" posts that lays it all out on the line]"

    Then it becomes Goru's problem :cool:
     
  18. Bass0r

    Bass0r Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Tokyo/N. Velidhoo
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Must remember next time that sarcasm flies right over your head.

    And the post that "revived the thread" (only from the second page) was mine, and the intention was just to satisfy my mere curiosity with a discussion that fits into foreigners playing for a Japanese team (nowhere in the thread title, despite your claims, does it say J. League teams). I don't intend to play myself, and the post wasn't to have you come into this thread and try to demolish any chance of having a healthy discussion just because you don't like a few pages of the thread.
    Perhaps I could've worded the original post better, and I'm sure by now you understand what it meant, but for goodness sake... if you don't like it, tough. Just ignore it, and again, stop complaining. We get it. But if others want to discuss it, let them. Surely the concept isn't that hard to understand.

    At least artml and Vendo should be applauded for contributing to said healthy discussion. And to scotch for also backing it up (in a way).
     
  19. artml

    artml Member

    Liverpool FC
    Ukraine
    Jul 11, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Well, I have read this thread with a great interest from the very first jänkä's post and the reasons were similar to Bass0r's: it is curious whether a foreigner can make it into Japanese team. Maybe you know the romantic story of Sergio Torres who came to England from Argentinian nowhere, worked in a local pharmacy to make a penny but made his way into a professional team – when I saw this thread I have remembered that one immediately and it certainly added to my curiosity.

    Discussing such possibilities and learning about all the barriers and complications that exist in Japanese football for a (foreign) player who wants to become a professional certainly adds a lot to the understanding of the entire football system of Japan, the "level" of its clubs and players and so on. That's why I haven't continued the discussion in the "non-league football" thread, because the main plot of Bass0r's reviving post was "players in a Japanese team" and IMO it perfectly fits to this very thread.

    I may understand that you have known all of this for a long time and you are pissed off by the emails you receive – but that comprehension doesn't mean we all should immediately bury this thread down trying not to hurt your feelings. Man, don't you think that some people (yours truly is in the list) are new to this subject and would appreciate to have a source of information to lurk in before asking the same question again and again. This thread is a great example of such a source, plus, as said above, you may also use it as a FAQ to the guys who write you those embarrassing emails and sweep the problem out of your mind.

    As a form of compromise I might propose to rename the thread to a more "neutral" name – would a name like "Troubles of a foreigner getting into Japanese team thread" decrease your exasperation? If so, that may be the best solution. If not, than you probably will have to close your eyes and count to ten every time you see it because, as I've said, the topic itself arouses a lot of interest, those emails in your junkbox being the clear evidences.
     
  20. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Mar 28, 2001
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Obviously :rolleyes:

    It isnt that I mind SEEING the thread. In fact I was in favour of making it a sticky, or combining it with the "J.League FAQ". What annoys me is to have people running over the same old ground again and again and again. The truth is, if you had read the thread carefully then there really wouldnt be any need to revive it. If you are a foreigner who wants to play football in Japan, and dont care about money, then as has been pointed out many times over and over again, in this same thread - JUST LOOK AROUND! There are leagues in every corner of the country, and with every possible level of quality. Ive practiced a few times with an "Over 40" league here in Yamanashi (unfortunately its too far for me to join full time), and there are womens leagues, kids leagues and more than a few all-foreigner teams too. You name it and you can find it.

    But that is all amateur, and that has never seemed to be the point of people writing to ask about playing football. Most of the ones who write are somehow convinced that they can earn money playing in Japan.

    That issue has also been covered repeatedly and extensively on this thread. And there isnt much more that can be said about it. The bottom line is that if you want to play football for money, you should focus on your own country. If you arent already a relatively well-paid pro in your country, you wont be good enough to play for money here.What more can possibly be said about the subject than that?

    If youre looking for a Sergio Torres story, I seriously doubt that you will ever find it in Japan. But I will say this - Japan is probably the purest meritocracy left in the world. If you really ARE good enough to play professionally, and you join a club in your local park, I am pretty sure that word of your ability will get around and teams will find YOU, based on your reputation on the pitch. You will end up at whatever level you deserve to play at. But again, there isnt any point in sitting at your computer and thinking about it. If thats your interest then you should be out in the park looking for a team.
     
  21. goru_no_ura

    goru_no_ura Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Miyako of Zipang
    Club:
    Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    I think the best thing to do would be for one of you Vendo and Matsu to write an article about it so that we can put it on RSN, japanesesoccer.net, jsoccer.com, etc.

    Then all those interested can read that, and ***eventually***, then write comments here.
     
  22. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Member

    Sep 28, 2008
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    I really want to play for a J.League club, and here is my story.
    I'm 15 years old now, and I live in Denver, but I was born and raised in Tokyo for 11 years. I have family there and friends and everything. I played on a International school called Santa Maria's soccer team. I moved to denver bout 5 years back.

    I'm saving up money so when I finish high school with great grades, I can move back and live with my relatives, and friends. I know this is in about 3 years time, but I want to get prepared now. Are there any like positions that japanese coaches tend to lean towards? I'm a center midfielder, but I want to choose the position that would most likely get me into the J.League.

    I also want to know what are the best ways for me to get scouted while I'm in Tokyo? Should I have video footage of me?

    Right now I'm playing for a state team called Colorado Fusion, and am on my high school varsity team.
     
  23. Vendo Thefastlane

    Jul 16, 2009
    Mito, Ibaraki
    Club:
    --other--
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    If you have money and grades and Japanese citizenship, pass the test to enter a Japanese university with a famous soccer program (Tsukuba University and Ryutsu Keizai University in Ibaraki have players entering J. League often). Become the best player on the team.

    Or, join the MLS or a respectable soccer country's top professional league. Be the best player on your team. You should be very wealthy at this point. Have professional management with Japan connection experience work on your behalf.

    Positions, video footage, family, and friends mean nothing. These are the only two paths you have to play professionally in Japan. If you don't have the drive and could not make the sacrifice, you can't make it here in any club JFL or above.
     
  24. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Go to a Japanese Uni.
     
  25. nsato

    nsato Member

    Oct 11, 2009
    Re: The "I want to tryout for a Japanese Team" Thread

    Go to the Rapids game and talk to Kimura about what he had to do to go pro!!
     

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