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Discussion in 'Chelsea' started by Naughtius Maximus, Nov 21, 2012.
You check with Pep and I'll check with Roman. We'll get to the bottom of this.
I'm not going to boo the club or anything, and I will obviously continue to be a supporter, but this decision is really, really poor imo and it's very hard to support. Di Matteo was a fantastic player for us before Abramovich ever came about, won the Champions League title he so desperately craved as a manager, I'm just appalled at the treatment which appears to completely disregard us, the fans. And to replace him with Benitez...
I'm not anti-Roman, I appreciate everything he's done for us and I know that we wouldn't be here otherwise. But I think that he has gotten this one completely wrong and I don't support the decision at all. I'd gladly like to be proven wrong but..
How does anything ever improve, change, or what incentive is there to not do shameful stupid things in the future, if supporters just hand over their cash, bend over and say please sir can I have another
It is neither disloyal or being spoiled or entitled to voice displeasure at horrifically bad decisions; "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil ( or underachieving midtableness, relegation, loss of a club's character and soul) is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke) It is one thing to demand/expect more than a Club's resources can reasonably muster, another to watch wantonly wasted resources and opportunity, and sheepishly take insulting slaps to the face.
What I would like to see is:
- before the match starts, and at non-distracting points after, repeated rafter rattling renditions of One DiMatteo and Di Matteo's Blue and Whity army
- hearty support for the players (and no boos but silence for the spoiled nino)
- utter silence or boos for the placeholder if announced
Roman will get the message without going after him directly
Don't know why we are discussing Rafa's transfers. I doubt he will have any say at all in the one window he will be here. Most managers don't have a say anyways here.
Understood but I think Rafa will be the target because he epitomizes the evil/wrong of all this. He'll be the fat Spanish waiter the Chelsea fans sang loud and proud against.
“Drogba is a coward, a diver and a cheat”
“Lampard is overrated”
“Chelsea is a soulless club”
“Liverpool fans do not need plastic flags to support their club. They show true passion. Chelsea fans are passionless”.
‘Chelsea is a big club but I would never take that job in respect for my former team at Liverpool no matter what”
As I see it the argument falls something like this:
We have replaced a promising young manager, a club hero who has achieved monumental success in a short time with someone who we thought was out of his depth and proved it by being quickly fired from his last job and has not found work in 2 years. Is that a fair take?
A few years ago, I would have been the first one lined up outside the Bridge with my Rafa out banner, I would. But since then I have had to accept the hard way that the club doesn't have the character or soul it once had. That didn't go yesterday, it's been altered on a regular basis since 2004.
This is a results based business and Roman has been nothing if not consistent with his methods, supporters opinions be damned (how else do you explain Grant, Emenalo and so forth). In that context, which is a reality, whether we like it or not, things like Robbie's sacking are inevitable. Furthermore, the approach has had its success. Had we operated like a club with character, we would have not fired AVB when we did (or for that matter a number of prior managers), there would have been patience and the chance for a longer term future, but since Jose was pushed, when have tptb demonstrated anything other than a short term strategy?
In the context of a results-first owner here are my objectionable and contentious thoughts:
I think the momentum under Robbie was awful. The lack of clean sheets, the lack of progression.
I think that the 2 year versus a 4-5 year contract was all the indication we needed that he was not the long term solution in the owner's minds.
I think the honeymoon period had ended and it was largely that that had kept the squads belief high enough to do the improbable last year and that the bubble had burst. I was not seeing a club moving forward.
I think the squad still has the talent to get at least 4th and that the changing room needs some serious work.
I don't think Robbie was respected enough as a manager by the senior players who he was still too close to and couldn't cope with an aging core.
I think tactically he was getting easy to figure out and we all pointed to the repeated use of OHM as a problem that was not getting corrected.
I think that Rafa is gone by the end of the year to be replaced by either Pep or Jose and that we won't have slipped into the mire by then.
I think Rafa can come in and be a steward neither making solid progress but not letting things slide too far.
I think I may be far too optimistic but given how wrong I was about AVB and RDM in the first instance I am not going to trust my gut reaction. I have never run a football club outside of a PC game (at which I might point out I was a legend in my own mind) and that it's hard to argue with the results and the trophies which are converse to everything I thought was logical for how to run a club (consistency at the manager position and limited player turnover with blooding of youngsters).
I think I am embracing my naivety and trusting for the best.
I think booing doesn't solve anything (I have never seen it be successful, if anything it accelerates the bad times rather than avoid them). Again just my point of view.
I am interested in knowing what the expectation is and how it has changed - so let's define the horrifically bad decisions. This is for lobo and anyone else to weigh in on and I'll start - if I can see what this decision leads to, I would better be able to buy into your point of view and I'm not opposed to changing my mind.
My expectations under RDM: Europa QF, FA Cup SF, 4th place in the league
My expectations under Rafa: Europa SF, FA 5th Round, 4th place in the league
It is possible Rafa will be a disaster, that he will fracture the changing room permanently and see us out of the Champions League altogether next year. But it is not a given for me that this will occur and until it does I don't see that booing from Day 1 will make any difference to an owner who has never previously seemed to care what we thought (and knowing that what we really care about at the end of the day is not legends, but winners).
There are if they're outliers (over 10 goals scored in extra time that year, red cards and penalties awarded galore). Liverpool's positions for those years: 5, 3, 3, 4, 2, 7, 6, 8, and let's remember they weren't title contenders for any of those years - even the second place finish.
a 4 year window of 3rd, 3rd, 4th, and 2nd doesn't seem too bad, before it fell apart
Re: KDB and nicephoras concerning anti-Roman chants
I'm not advocating it, I just think there is a chance that some fans voice their discontent toward the highest power at the club.
Grant, Scolari, Ancelotti and AVB all received abuse from the home fans. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Benitez will receive anything but a warm welcome. He is going to have to work wonders to gain any level of respect.
In my opinion, I think there's more to it than Abramovich. Yes, he is the big boss. But the manager has almost no real power at Chelsea, and hasn't since Mourinho's acrimonious exit. The board of directors -- obviously influenced by Roman -- call all the shots, with Emenalo playing a large role in transfers and squad movement. I have to question exactly how much the likes of Buck, Gourlay, Tenenbaum and Barnard know about football. AFAIK, they are all businessman.
I'm sure ultimate decisions come to Roman, but Buck and Gourlay are massively powerful figures at the club.
At least Wrath is right that Benitez will have almost no say in transfers. And the Rafa quotes posted by Jedi... sickening. I don't care if boos don't solve anything, lobo's post about simply accepting these decisions without voicing discontent is spot on. Could not agree more. Roman's money has powered the club into its current position, but without the fans, there are no massive worldwide sponsorships, record income, and the ultimate profit. Without the fans, there is no club.
I'm a Chelsea supporter for reasons other than trophies. I am thankful for what Roman has done for the club; he is a larger than life figure. But he can't buy hearts, minds and souls.
Yeah, I think that's maybe more to the point. He won't be making the buys anyway, other people will. TBH I tend to think that was part of Robbie's problems at the club, that he had little to no say about who came in.
Benitez had a decent record at Valencia for a few years winning the league, (not the easiest thing to do in LaLiga if you're not Madrid or Barca), and achieved some success at Liverpool, particularly in the CL. I don't think he's the greatest manager in the world but he ain't the worst either, not by a LONG shot. Having said that I'll be surprised to find him still at the bridge come, say, the middle of next season... as much as anything because he's been brought in as a temporary fill-in so has almost got a 'sack-me' sign on his back. If robbie can be given the elbow after about a month of poor results after an excellent start in the league, (particularly in a transitional season with some important and influential players unavailable), then I guess he's probably going to have to do significantly BETTER than that over the rest of the season. IOW we HAVE to do better than be 3rd by the end of THIS SEASON. Not sure that can be guaranteed, WHOEVER came in.
Anyway, let's see how we go.
Well, I didn't show the point totals
There has never been a shortage of human stupidity - but it does usually stop at some point.
Barca were very down when Benitez won those titles, just beginning their Ronaldinho-led reemergence in 03/04; and Madrid were the post-2000 Champions League underachieving version. Spain was actually an open and competitive league back then. Won the titles with 75 and 77 points, respectively. Finished 5th in the season between titles on 60 points (won 17, dropped points in 21).
By the way, the last time 77 points would have won the Premier League was 1997 (United -- 75 pts).
KDB - I do not resent Roman at all, or his right to change the manager.
I most strongly resent his woefully short-sighted and, frankly, insulting decision to bring in this disgrace of a manager who has on numerous occasions insulted this club and its fans, and who has done nothing to show the ability to bring a squad through a successful league season. He has been successful in the CL, but then again, so has RDM. Since we are all but out of that competition, that is no reason to bring him in. This hire is equivalent to Villa's decision to bring in McLeish after he had relegated Birmingham.
Firing RDM may be in line with the general policy that has been developed at the club, but bringing in Benitez is a slap in the face to the supporters. There were plenty of other options and frankly, if Benitez was the only man available I would rather have JT run the side.
Like others, I would like to see some strong protests from the fans on Sunday. Not booing, but chants of "Fat Spanish Waiter, you're not welcome here" seem appropriate. Coupled, of course, with very loud support for the players. Benitez might get my respect eventually, but he will have to earn it.
New interim first-team manager Rafael Benitez has confirmed he will be adding former Chelsea player Boudewijn Zenden to the backroom staff.
He will also be bringing in two people who were with him at Liverpool to work alongside existing staff at Cobham - Paco De Miguel, a fitness coach, and Xavi Valero who will be part of the analysis department.
from the COS
Is Eva staying????
I believe so. No word on the long term plans for Eddie Newton and Steve Holland but both are staying on for now. Christophe Lochiollon continues to have plenty of job safety with Cech between the sticks.
My parting thoughts with this: this is going to be another year of transition for Chelsea. This was ADUMBRA. I am not going to keep my hopes up with Rafa as the boss. Di Matteo was not given a chance to finish out his year, which he should have been given the dignity to, and as a Chelsea supporter from Southern California, I am going to have to hold my breath for the time being.
(Another DUmb Move By Roman Abromovich)
Yeah, I realise that but the fact is it was STILL a major European league and they won it. That can't just be ignored can it.
Personally I think the guy's style of play is rather defensive, (based more on what I saw of his Liverpool team than anything), but he's obviously a very competent manager.
Anyone else thinking Benitez gets the sack and Zenden steers us to the CL lol.
I just don't see how this won't divide the dressing room, especially for the long-term players who went against Benitez's Liverpool in so many important clashes. How can those the players NOT resent his presence? You can see how this all shapes up...
You have Benitez and Torres on one side, then the Spanish contingent, and then the new players wondering what the ******** they've gotten themselves into by joining Circus Football Club, and then the old guard (JT, Cech, Lamps, Ash, Mikel) who surely have some contempt for Benitez for (a) his Liverpool days and (b) replacing the well-liked Di Matteo.
I hope I'm wrong, but this just seems like it will be a mess.
The players do not care. They just want to play at the end and win.