Rapids Prospects...

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by RMJB, Sep 20, 2006.

  1. RMJB

    RMJB New Member

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    Seeing the excitement that a potential recruit can bring in (i.e. Cam Weaver), I was wondering if there were any other young talents out there that any of you have your eye on...thinking they may be able to make the jump to the MLS. These could be players playing in the USL (div. 1 & 2), College, PDL, and or a youth setup (local or with a youth national team).

    I have been keeping my eye on a solid defender that is a red shirt freshman at Creighton. His name is Chris Schuler, and I think the Rapids should be watching him carefully. He is very athletic, with a good frame, and great soccer brain. I believe he could challenge for an outside back spot (this season...if he were here), although he is playing centrally with Creighton this season.

    A link to his bio is here!


  2. RMJB

    RMJB New Member

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    What picks do the Rapids have in next year's draft?
  3. prk166

    prk166 Moderator Staff Member

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    IIRC the Rapids traded away their first round pick but got the PinkCows 1st round pick as part of the JPP deal.

    I'm not sure about the others. I looked quick and didn't see anything at the MLS web site. I'm sure they'll put something up closer to draft time.
  4. phills

    phills Member

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    i don't get too excited with college propects or usl league. So many do not pan out. Let me see what cameron does in mls. Wasn't peterson leading one of the leading college scorer??


  5. RMJB

    RMJB New Member

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    Yeah he was with Indiana....and I think most of us on the boards would agree that he is one of our bright young guns that will take us into the future.

    Also, the thread is more to see if anyone has an early feeling about a good diamond in the rough, like Dasan Robinson for the Fire or Jonathan Bornstein for Chivas. It is never to early to start scouting....or help the Rapids FO scout some talent!
  6. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

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    More than a fair share of MLS stars come out of the draft. Peterson fell to what 21st pick overall (second round)?

    The odds are against you - but it's an important way to build a team. The Rapids haven't built this way because they got bit in the ass 100 years ago with Taj Jankins - but it was dumb to trade away first rounder after first rounder.

    Here are some players that were in the draft:

    2005: Besango, Guzan, Barrett
    2004: Adu, Marshall, Ngwenya, Nunez, Dempsey, Gros, Bradley
    2003: Esky, Clark, Jaqua, Stokes, Dunivant, Ralph
    2002: Gbandi, Twellman, Davis, Mapp, Gray, S. Joesph

    One good pick can completely change your team!
  7. greenie

    greenie New Member

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    Adu was "in the draft." Right. :)

    Considering that the list above represents the cream of the crop that has come out of the past 4 drafts, I'm not convinced that the draft is any better than teams finding players through their own channels.

    It all depends on the coach and the team.

    Out of the above list, the only players that truly stand out are Dempsey, Ralph, Twellman and Jospeh. I don't think it's a coincidence that 3 of them are/were Revolution players.

    In the case of the Rapids, draft selections have been miserable at best, with the team historically doing better to find its young hopefuls through other channels.

    I'm not suggesting that the draft is useless, only that it's simply one market among many.
  8. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

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    But an important one I think - look at how "good" our american players are?

    The only time we've ever really done well with our "own" americans are Ross Paule and Nat Borchers.

    The rest of our successes have come via trade or expansion draft. And the days of the good trade have gone south.

    And I believe our very own John Murphy is given lots of credit for those Revs players.

    To add - we don't really have a very long history of using our first round pick - so IMO evaluting the Rapids success at the draft can't really be done.
  9. greenie

    greenie New Member

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    Wow. This is one of the silliest statements I've read here in a long time. I mean, this is some real lets-bomb-Iraq-to-kill-Al-Qaeda stream of logic you've got going on.

    Whether the Rapids made a selection or traded away a selection, those are equal decisions that relate specifically to what the Rapids do with their draft picks.

    As the draft is not restricted to American players, I don't understand your reference to them. Both Damani Ralph and Shalrie Joseph are foreign players, yet they're unquestionably two of the best players you listed.

    Also note that Borchers was not selected in the 2003 draft... he was signed as an independent player to a developmental contract a month later.
  10. fortcollins

    fortcollins Member

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    Hunter Freeman and Jacob Peterson were draft picks, and Daniel Wasson was a fourth round supplemental pick. They have a combined 42 starts for the Rapids this season. Jacob Peterson is only 20 years old. Hunter Freeman is 21. Daniel Wasson is the "old guy" at 22. All three have shown solid promise this season, and bring speed and agility to the lineup. Freeman is growing in his ability to play aggressively, but under control, and has contributed better defensively as the season has progressed. Wasson has shown poise in some difficult games this season and is developing nicely. Peterson's raw speed gives opposing defenses fits. He has demonstrated unselfish team play, despite starting and playing out of position most of the season. These three young guns are definitely players to keep as the core of a young lineup.

    Very few young players can make an immediate transition from the college game to the professional game. Regardless of any criticism of the MLS (which is usually combined with comparisons to the Premiership), the level of talent in the MLS is growing. So is the gap between top college play and the MLS. It is a difficult jump from college to the MLS, and Freeman, Wasson, and Peterson have made that transition successfully.

    I have criticized FC for his enigmatic loyalty to Jovan Kirovski. It is only fair that I give FC credit where it is due, and FC deserves tremendous credit for giving these young guns the chance not only to play, but to start.

    My opinion is jaded, of course. I readily admit to being the most rabid Jacob Peterson fan on this board. Count me also as a Hunter Freeman fan and as a Daniel Wasson fan. I see tremendous potential in these three players. (They are three of the ten players I would keep, while cleaning the roster and rebuilding the team.)

    That's a long way of saying that yes, the college draft is worthwhile and yes, I am excited with the potential talent that the Rapids could land through this year's draft.
  11. RMJB

    RMJB New Member

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    Isn't there some rule about tabbing a player as a discovery....and then your team has the first crack at signing said player if/when they come available.

    That said it is important to locate prospects that will be able to contribute to our organization.

    Also, Garber mentioned the ability to move players from a youth setup to a first team without the possibility of losing that player to other team via waivers or a draft. I know that the Rapids do not have a youth setup yet...but would the Boulder Rapids Reserves count as a foundation of our youth system? This way we could filter quality youth and collegiate level players through the B. Rapids Revserves and then we would have the first crack at signing them.

    Schuler...a red shirt freshman from Creighton, could be one of these collegiate level players that we could put our tab on either through the discovery system or the B. Rapids Reserves youth setup system.
  12. Dom. FC

    Dom. FC Member+

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    Wow that is a little scary. I was in Omaha and saw him play against Yale Sunday. What you say about him is correct with the addition that he started on the left in that match and was later in the center back spot. He also spent a somewhat extended spell up in the attack at one point after going forward on a set piece (iirc). The soccer brain part is dead on, he was winning balls not just with his height but also with his 'read' on where to be. I also was impressed with his pinpoint accurate passes heading balls from the air that most players would be lucky just to control for a couple follow-up touches. He has a potential all-american goalkeeper playing behind him and that on the pitch 'coaching' will also really help him in his first NCAA I season.

    By the way he played what I was thinking was would the Olympic team coach be calling and I also would guess there were another 3 or 4 players there (at least) that probably deserve consideration for our U-23 (+3) team.
  13. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

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    With my blog I focus a lot on the up and coming players. In fact, that is my goal, to give readers an idea of who's out there, who's in the coming draft, etc.

    The MLS drafts are all about scouting and judging talent. Chivas USA did an awesome job of it this year. They got the odds on favorite to win Rookie of the Year in the 4th round. Yes, the Rapids could have drafted Jonathan Bornstein and our left midfield issues would be totally different. However, FC didn't see the value in drafting him and took Jacob Peterson instead. To give Clavijo credit, he had one pick in the first three rounds of the draft, making that one pick so much more critical. Bornstein was kind of unknown coming out of UCLA and he didn't attract a lot of public attention in the combine.

    Clavijo is a good judge of talent, however in the last draft he had to deal with very few picks, taking his chances of picking a jem way down. IMO he did well taking Peterson. I think he'll develop into an MLS starter with some more experience.
  14. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

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    Schuler is in my scouting database. For a Freshman he does have some great experience. He was a 2004 ESP All*Star and named to the 2005 PARADE Magazine All-American list. This summer he played PDL and was named to the PDL team of the week once. He was on the Chicago Fire Premier PDL team so you know they're all over him. He also played for the Chicago Magic club growing up, they're one of the best youth club in the country every year.
  15. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

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    Ain't it great to have Mr. Dramatic back :)

    Good Point.

    So let's look at how we've always used our picks:

    College Draft
    1996 - Jean Harbor
    1997 - Taj Jankins
    1998 - Tyrone Marshall
    1999 - Andrew Mittendorf
    SuperDraft
    2000 - Adin Brown & Wes Hart & Alan Woods
    2001 - Traded to select Brown in 2000. Another pick Traded for Jason Moore.
    2002 - Traded with Brown/Vermillion for Valderrama, Garlick, Kotschau
    2003 - Traded For Robin Fraser
    2004 - Traded for rights to Cannon
    2005 - Freeman
    2006 - Traded for Cunningham
    2007 - Traded for Kirovski + have NYRB's pick for Peguero

    Picks:
    Harbor
    Jankins
    Marshall
    Mittendorf
    Brown
    Hart
    Woods
    Freeman

    Aquired:
    Moore
    Valderrama
    Kotchau
    Garlick
    Fraser
    Cannon
    Cunningham
    Kirovski

    Well obviously we don't pick very well - but we all knew that.
    As for trading - We've done decent.

    Jason Moore - TERRIBLE.
    The Brown/Vermillon/Draft Pick for Valderrama/Kotschau/Garlick was a GOOD trade - not espeically long term.
    For Fraser - KIND OF GOOD - but it was a patch solution - a good patch - but a patch - not long term.
    Cannon - GREAT move - long term.
    Cunningham - in the eyes of the beholder - I'd have to say NOT GOOD since we then moved him on - in return for Mathis who at isn't playing close to 90 a game.
    Kirovski - TERRIBLE.

    2 Terribles, 2 Goods, 2 Greats - could argue the Valderrama was great easily - except look how short termed it all turned out to be.

    To me how we've used our first round draft picks is one main reason why the Rapids have always been a mediocre team. Draft picks are to get players for the LONG TERM. This team never looks long term anymore - never looks to build a foundation.

    On the one hand FC does look long term by playing lots of kids - but on the other - Maths/Kirovski.

    And Greenie: I know the draft isn't just for Americans - I misspoke - switch it to domestically grown players - players that stay with you more than 2 or 3 years. Oh and Joesph may not be American - but he's a green card holder.

    I know Borchers wasn't drafted - but walk ons being top MLS players are rare - and if we drafted more Borchers type players - we'd be contenders instead of the Colorado Rapids!
  16. prk166

    prk166 Moderator Staff Member

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    The key to the foreign players being drafted is that they've played college in Yankland.
  17. RMJB

    RMJB New Member

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    Bonji, who are some other players you have in your scouting database? Share the insight!
  18. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

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    There are over 300 of them so I probably can't list everyone. :) I'm trying to figure out a way to get it online for my blog, but that hasn't happened yet.

    I'll list some seniors since they're the ones who you know will be available unless they go abroad.

    F - Fred Moojen at Clemson is one to watch. He was the PDL MVP this summer, he just transfered from Lincoln Memorial Unversity where in 2004 he scored 23 goals with 7 assists and in 2005 he scored 25 goals with 6 assists. In 8 games he has 7 goals and 1 assist this season for the #2 team in the country.

    F - Dane Richards playing with Moojen at Clemson has also scored 7 goals while making 6 assists in 8 games. Dane is a short guy at 5' - 7", but he gets the job done. In 2004 he was the National Junior College Player-of-the-Year and in 2006 he got on the pre-season Herman Watch list.

    M - Chris Loftus is someone a lot of people take about, partially because of his size...he's 6' - 5". In 2002 he was a high school All-American.

    D - Kyle McClung at UCLA is someone to watch. He's solid and has been named NSCAA/adidas All-American in the past.

    D - Michael Harrington at UNC has been a rising star on the youth national team scene since 2001. In 2003 he played for the US at the U-17 World Championships. He's on the pre-season Herman Watch List.


    Keep checking my blog, this is what I write about.
  19. bilfish

    bilfish New Member

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    Bonji, you freaky geeky bastard. How much free time between the hours of midnight and 4am could you possibly have????

    Cheers,

    BilFish
  20. prk166

    prk166 Moderator Staff Member

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    Are their any young pups around the MLS that would be worth trading a draft pick for?
  21. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

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    Jonathan Bornstein although I don't know how long he'll last in the league before European offers start.

    Bobby Boswell would certainly help our defense.

    Thiago in Chicago is an exciting playmaking midfielder.

    You know I like Nate Jaqua.

    I think Quavas Kirk is going to be really good...someday.

    Chad Marshall is a rock in the back.

    Brian Plotkinis getting better with experience.

    Chris Rolfe, Scott Sealy, Nathan Sturgis, Chris Wondolowski, Sacha Kljestan....

    To name a few.
  22. Rei de Boston

    Rei de Boston New Member

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    This really captures our futility and the reason why this team is consistently spinning its wheels. Seeing it writen out like that really puts in perspective how badly we ave used our draft picks, particularly the first round ones.

    While it is early still I think this past draft was decent for the Rapids. Without many picks we came away with Peterson and Wasson who both have potential. They aren't stars or even game changers but they are at least the beginnings of this club trying to look long term.
  23. Rei de Boston

    Rei de Boston New Member

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    He has a lot of potential and could really learn from Karanka. But he, like the others on your list, is probably not realistic for just a pick.
  24. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

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    I'm hopeful that Jacob Peterson was the first step in the right direction. Chicago and Dallas recently have been the best drafters, IMO (I'm preparing a blog entry to back that claim up). You see the fruits of their efforts play out during the season. Chicago is in the US Open Cup final based on the play of some of their rookies (Calen Carr being one of the biggest after scoring two goals in the semi-finals.)

    MLS teams can't go into the draft with two picks in the first four rounds and expect to find what they need. Chicago had success with one pick in the first round, two in the second and then seven more over the rest of the draft. Colorado went in with one pick in the second round and one pick in the fourth, the other four coming in the supplemental round.

    You can see from the above why we're not as successful in the draft as other clubs, lower chances of picking a jem.
  25. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

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    You never know what guy's will trade for in MLS.

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