RailHawks vs Chivas USA

http://whattheflock.buzzsprout.com/5896/50419-what-the-flock-episode-7

 

any streams for all of us in LA to watch?

 

What a heartbreaking end to the game for the Railhawks. I think the handball was technically the correct call but man that's a tough call to make in extra time against the home team!

 

Yep, IIRC Zach was tackled near midfield and I was suprised at that no call. It seemed a pretty clear call.

 

Exciting game, unlucky end for Carolina, they played well though, and I think they will have a good run the rest of the season and climb up the standings some. They're definately not a 7th or 8th place team and I'm sure will finish in the middle of the pack.

 

I stand by what I said. The gap between D1 and D2 in this country has never been greater, and it has been increasing steadily for the last 10 years.

Individual games are meaningless in the larger picture. The Negro Leagues won most of the barnstorming games they played against AL and NL teams. Even the Negro Leaguers themselves would tell you that while most Negro League teams had several MLB quality players, as a whole, the teams weren't as good.

You see this in the NCAA basketball tournament.

I never said there was a heart gap, or a desire gap. Motivation can move the needle.

The U.S. not only beat Portugal 3-2 ten years ago yesterday, the scoreline flattered what happend on the field. Just like our win over Colombia in 1994. In both those cases, the U.S. was not of the same calibre, but they still carried the day. Likewise, the U.S. still occasionally stumbles against Guatemala, El Salvador, and so on.

As dominant as we were last year, I am fully confident that the 2011 Carolina RailHawks would've finished with the worst record in the league if they competed in MLS last year.

And the 2011 Carolina RailHawks are the most dominant D2 team I have ever seen.

 

"maybe over 20-25% hispanic"

that is a bit of a stretch.

 

Not in my neighborhood.

 

Well those are friendly games, so I would not base anything on that. But yes the CCL does show that Liga MX is >> than MLS, but most people knowledgeable of soccer already knew that, now, the last few years have shown that MLS is becoming superior to the Central American leagues and becoming the second best league in Concacaf.

Now I would love the Hawaii invitational to get bigger (profitable) and become some type of secondary tournament for spring to fall leagues, to compare MLS to J,K Leagues, CSL, and some Scandinavian leagues. But I will not hold my breath for that to happen.

Depending on how you define top leagues, but yes I would agree.

The gap between Liga MX (new FMF) and MLS is greater than the gap between MLS and NASL. IMO (Edit: I guess it depends on how you measure, top team to worst team, or top team to top team).

Now the gap with the top 4, is PDL to MLS. (there are some very good PDL players and teams, do not hate on PDL).

Do you have a penny?

Probably more to do with the chaotic state of American lower leagues, MLS has been constant and steady, that alone puts MLS ahead of USL, if NASL can do that (not fold teams every other year) then the gap will narrow IMO

Odds are yes, look at Vancouver they did finish last their first year in MLS.

This could contradict my point, would the 2011 LA Galaxy team finish last if they were promoted to the Mexican Clausura 2012 tournament? Based on the LA form this year, probably.

Would LA be able to compete with Tecos, Atlas, Querretaro?

It would be interestig to see. LA payroll is probably equal or greater than those 3 teams, but LA has something like 80% of that tied up in 3 playes, the Mexican teams would have better depth.

 

I'd say we are on an "any given game" basis. We held in there with the Chivas starters, but we would be whipped if we played in MLS regularly.

 

Exactly.

 

Andy is 100% right. A number of people have said that the gap between MLS and the lower leagues has been growing. There are legitimate reasons for this that I will get to. The most obvious reason is the chaos and turmoil that has plagued minor league soccer for many years.

Uh no. Just no. This is a little delusional.

A NASL club can beat a MLS club on any given day. Just like a MLS club could beat an EPL club. Upsets happen. Portland badly out shot Cal FC 43-11 in their USOC game and still lost. But a NASL club would make TFC look like Man City if they were forced to play every week in a rigorous MLS schedule against MLS competition. And a MLS club would get killed having to play every week in the EPL. They simply lack the depth.

Now for the reasons why the gap has grown between MLS and the lower divisions. It mostly comes down to money.

#1 - MLS payrolls have gone up and rosters have increased. From 1996 to 2004, MLS's minimum vet salary was 24k. A number of quality lower league players actually stayed in D2 because they could make more money. Sometime also playing indoor. So you had a lot of MLS quality players like Lenin Steenkamp, Doug Miller, and Onandi Lowe staying in D2. Now compare that to today. Pretty much anyone in D2 wants in MLS. No quality player is going to hang around D2 now. And NASL clubs are not going to pay players to keep them out of MLS. Nor will they compete with MLS for players. Which is what you want since you want players to move up.

#2 - The difference in payrolls. You pay for what you get. When MLS fans talk about competing with FMF, they often forget to look at the difference in player budgets. The bottom MLS player budget is about 4mil counting off-salary players. Teams with high priced DPs like the Galaxy and Red Bulls can get that to over 12mil. A NASL player budget is somewhere around 400 to 500k with the average player making 12 to 20k, although in many cases this includes housing. You cannot live on that without some other source of income. The difference in payrolls is too great to ever say a NASL club could be competitive in MLS.

In 2002, after being cut from the Fire, the LA Galaxy gave Eric Wynalda an offer of about 44K(no wonder he is still so bitter about MLS). The D2 Charleston Battery then gave him a rumored 75k. Wynalda was still a national team player at the time so it was a big deal for him to join the A-League over MLS. Can you imagine a NASL club doing that today? No, because the money is not there.

#3 - The best of D2 is now in MLS. Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, and Montreal. You simply don't lose organizations like this and say that the gap has not grown.

#4 - The MLS academies are slowly beginning the process of producing players.

If MLS truly wants to be a world class league by 2022, then the already growing gap will become the Grand Canyon. But as MLS grows, hopefully the lower divisions, it whatever form that take, grow with them.

The USOC never demonstrates anything. MLS teams have been getting beat by lower teams for years. PDL teams have beaten MLS clubs. Many of the USL/NASL clubs who scored upsets had poor league records. So what can you prove from any of this?

MLS teams will always get upset and the chances increase when they send their reserves and show little interest in the torny. And sometimes you deal with horrible officials like the Red Bulls had against the City Islanders. But there will likely be an all MLS final like there has been in 13 out of 16 years they have participated. And there will likely be a MLS champion just like in 15 out of the 16 years.

Look at it this way. The NASL clubs are gone and the USL still has three teams left. Should we say that the USL has now proven themselves superior to the NASL? Um, no.

That is a blanket statement. MLS is now doing what it is suppose to do in the CCL. That wasn't the case before. Beating teams it has an economic advantage over(Central America) and losing to teams that have an economic advantage over them(Mexico). And even then, RSL came within a sliver of winning the CCL. MLS teams are also proving they can beat Mexican teams even in Mexico. But MLS will not become a constant force in the CCL until they up their player budgets.

MLS has never faced Euro competition outside of friendlies. And friendly results are irrelevant. The KC Wizards once beat Man U in a friendly, and they were down to 10 men!

No. It is actually quite top heavy. Look at most NASL rosters. The best players are usually MLS cast-offs or never-beens. There is a big difference between a MLS roster vs. a NASL roster.

Wynalda is right that many players fall through the cracks, but we are a long way from being able to fill 20 lower division teams with quality talent. Let's be honest. A lot of lower division soccer games in the NASL and USL-Pro can be unwatchable and very aesthetically unpleasing. So we have a long way to go.

 

Well, some MLS and even EPL games can also be unwatchable, but yes, just look at the way Antigua played the USA, that is what you usually see in USLPRO.

 

The US is 8-0-1 against El Salvador since 2002 and 7-0-3 against Guatemala since 1999, but I know what you're saying.