I know you are allowed to take a throw in from behind the line. I think the letter of the law stipulates that you should be no more than 1 yard behind the touch line, but often this is treated as trifling. I was thinking the other day while watching a game about what type of unfair advantage one might possibly gain from taking a throwin from a location behind the line, as opposed to on the line. If one were to throw the ball up the line, from a full yard (or more as allowed) behind the touchline, at a 89 degree angle from the perpendicular for example, I could imagine a throwin that would travel a very long way before entering the field of play. I could even picture a well aimed throwin bouncing and rolling up the line as players wait for it to enter the field of play in the same way that baseball players watch a slow rolling bunt that is hugging the line, hoping for it to go out for a foul ball. If there were a slight breeze running across the field, one could throw the ball in parallel to the touch line and watch it slowly cross into the field of play 30-40 yards from the throw in location. I assume this would be legal, and that any touch of the ball by a player before it entered the field of play would be deemed illegal.
I struggle to see how this is really a huge advantage. Plus, if the ball didn't enter the pitch for 30-40 yards I would be inclined to order a re-take. In my experience, the usual advantage one gets from taking the TI further than one yard back from the touchline is the element of surprise or a quick restart. One particular situation I remember was when a player took the TI from behind the bench in order to get the ball in quickly. It clearly was too far back and caught the opponents on their toes. Whistle. Nope, not today boys. [Bubba beat me to it!]
I think you have a very vivid imagination. Know the black letter law. Use common sense to determine if an unfair advantage has been gained. If not, consider a technical violation trifling. If so, whistle. Simple.
Precisely. (Note that it would be retaken as it never entered play, not a TI infraction. But if the TI was taken from more than a yard behind the line, and ITOOTR the infraction was not trifling, then the TI would be awarded to the other side even though it did not enter play.)
Except in NFHS of course, where any TI that doesn't enter the field is turned over to the other team. Including those from >1 yd from the touch line, I guess.
The ball is in play as soon as it breaks that plane of the outside edge of the touchline. So when it lands on the line and rolls along the line, it's already in play and a live ball.
Its funny how easily a simple scenario can run down a rat hole... If a throw-in is legally taken, and never enters the field of play, do over--it never happened. If the throw-in is improperly taken, and never enters the field of play, as socal points out, the Laws dictate a TI the other way. Except, in practice -- in the case of improper location -- it never is done that way! If the ref can see that the thrower is going to a spot he deems incorrect, it is customary to toot-toot the player back (or up). But if the throw comes in from a spot the ref doesn't like and he did not have a chance to pre-manage the location--in every game I have ever seen or done!--the throw goes to the same team for a re-do from the proper location. When custom trumps the Law, follow the Law at your own risk -- game management-wise.
I'm confused. You say it caught the opponents "on their toes". I assume you mean off-guard. IMO that would have to be whistled since the defense would not have expected the throw to take place from outside the one yard radius, thus giving the throwing team an undue advantage via the technical infraction. Trifling as it may seem. On the other hand, I suppose this could be put in the same perspective as a quick free kick. The defense may not expect the kick to take place until they have retreated the required distance, but if the kicker takes the kick before then we still allow it.
Why must you read so carefully and catch my mistakes? You are correct, I meant that they were caught off guard. In this case, I decided that the offense was not trifling because of the unfair advantage that was gained. I think we can take your quick free kick example a little further. We allow the quick free kick, even if the defense isn't ready, as long as the kick is taken from the correct location. Same thing with the TI.
As far as I am aware there is nothing in the current LOTG stating that a throw in must be taken at any particular distance from the touchline.
From the Grade 8 course slides. Edit: Interestingly enough, I don't see notes in the LOTG regarding where the thrower can take the throw from other than "at the point where the ball left the field." Checked the interpretations, too, so the question is: Who knows where this instruction came from? Tradition? Learn something new all the time!
That is a good point, but aren't most of us sometimes a bit lenient on free kick location as well? I mean by a yard or two and sometimes more. I see it in professional games quite a bit, but normally it's when the restart is nothing more than a pass to to keep the match flowing.
Law 15 says "... delivers the ball from the point where it left the field of play." More than a yard off the touch line is no more "the point where [the ball] left the field of play" than are locations more than a yard up or down the line. This is nothing more than a straightforward, common-sense interpretation of the Law, confirmed by the ATR: 15.1 LOCATION OF THROW-INAlthough the throw-in is to be taken "from the point where [the ball] crossed the touch line," this requirement is satisfied if the restart occurs within approximately one yard (one meter) of this location, farther upfield or downfield or back from the touch line. A throw-in taken beyond this limit is an infringement of Law 15.
The bold section is what I want to call attention to. We simply need to observe and think about the impact on the game. For example, if on a QFK the player puts the ball 2-3 yards away from the actual location and does a simple pass backwards, why stop it? Common sense tells us that's trifling. So where do we draw the line? Back to my original scenario. For me, the difference was literally one yard. If they had taken the TI from in front of the bench, I wouldn't have stopped it even though that was still 2-3 yards away from the touchline.
But the difference wasn't the yard, the difference was the bench. On a field with a 7 yard artificial turf apron surrounded by concrete, I made them retake when he threw it from the concrete. "Lets not get too loose, guys." But this is not the usual deciding factor... The analagy with a free kick (or throw in from a spot upfield) is apt. If the spot is wrong, and the difference between correct and incorrect creates a tactical advantage, then lets do it right. If the difference between correct and incorrect is functionally irrelevant, then lets play. Sometimes I push the thrower upfield toward the point where the ball exited, if I feel that they are subtracting for a tactical advantage. The players always love that. (I dont do it often, maybe once a year.) i.e. The ball went out when the defense kicked it out 5 yards from their goal line. The attackers want to throw it in from 15 yards out, since it gives them better attacking options.
You said it much better than I did, jayhonk. One small issue I have... 7 yards?!? 21 feet seems like that's a bit much
While I agree with you on the trifling aspect, and I agree that it is good officiating to correct them before they throw from the wrong place, I don't agree with you on letting "custom" overrule the LOTG and retaking the improper throw. (That is the path that also gets us to "can't kick the ball from the ground," "need to put a name on it," and other issues of last week's refs.) If it is bad enough to whistle it back, it is bad enough to turn the ball over to the other team. But I am curious how many other folk on here agee with your view and ignore the LOTG and re-take a TI if it is taken from the wrong place?
The phrase I use when it comes to placement of free kicks and throws is, "If you aren't greedy, I won't be picky."
I don't see it as the same. For a free kick the ball must be stationary - quick or not. For a throw in it must be taken within + 1 yard from where it went out of touch. We always enforce the former. Do we the latter?
Alright fair enough. So nothing set out in the Law specifically, but something you guys need to do in the US.
I was hoping someone would post an insightful followup to your question. Looks like that's not gonna happen, so I will pipe in I guess I am too stupid to even realize that there is a "custom" to retake a throw if improperly taken. I just always assumed it was never allowed to get that far, even if the ball was in play by the time the ref was calling it back. One of those "Well yes, I am blowing the whistle now, but I decided to blow the whistle then" calls. I'm putting a "throw in from more than 1 yd away" into the same category as "keeper change at half time without notifying the CR". If the CR doesn't deal with it before the ball is in play, he is tacitly allowing it. Nothing more to see. Move on. I suppose I could imagine a situation where my truisms would fail. But, practically speaking, I have NEVER seen it.
I don't understand. Are you saying you don't think Law 15's requirement to "... deliver the ball from the point where it left the field of play" is specific? How could it be any more so?
I think the point is that while the ATR gets very specific about what this means, a lot of people could read LAw 15 without thinking it had anything to do with being too far behind the line as opposed to be too far up or down the line.