absolutely... in a tournament like this luck has to be on your side...a missed penalty here, a few posts here, a bad call from the linesmen there.... not to take away merits from teams like Venezuela and Peru and Paraguay especially (I think uruguay did more), they capatalized when they needed to, but a bit of luck goes a long way. i don't lack self criticism.. the mistakes were made at the back and there's no denying that, while at the same time there were two posts, a ball cleared off the line, and a goal that was called back for offside that wasn't.... its soccer, to win you need things to go your way and in this case they didn't (while other times they have)..... I think its unreasonable to look at this game and conclude that Borghi didn't take the game seriously, or that he didn't practice defending free kicks, or watch tapes. absurd conclusion to reach. the same thing happened with Bielsa, with Olmos, with Acosta etc...... watch all the tapes you want and prepare however you want, if the defender loses his man its not on the coach. if the goalie mishandles a ball its not on the coach
tremendo analisis un poco de suerte, no demerita ningun triunfo hay que estar en el area para tener suerte de un gol....cuando estan tan cerrados los partidos y los defensores tan ordenaditos o concentrados. respecto al DT argentino: hoy se decia del respaldo unanime que se le daba en federacion, hasta plan de accion y amistosos de buen calibre vienen, para tenerlos listos para eliminatorias. Mientras que argentina, solo grondona le pidio a Batista que escuche mas a Bilardo
Bueno y que querías que estos ladrones hicieran, si ellos son los que contrataron a Borghi. ¿ Qué lo echen en poco menos de 4 meses desde que asumió ?. obvio que lo tienen que apoyar, y morir con él si es necesario. En cuanto a los partidos amistosos que se vienen, acuérdate lo que te estoy diciendo ahora, llegado el momento lo van a suspender por falta de plata y con cueva solo terminaremos jugando con Ecuador, si es que no lo suspenden también por la misma razón. En todo caso esto no le quita al comentario que hice anteriormente. Borghi no preparó este compromiso como debía y solo se dedicó a improvisar sobre la marcha. Para él este partido estaba ganado, en cuanto supo que debíamos enfrentar a Venezuela. Y si, también le cabe la responsabilidad de escoger los jugadores que entran a la cancha a jugar. Si Bravo andaba como las huevas, lo que ya se vió en partidos anteriores, en donde también se mostró falto de reflejos y de ubicación adecuada (Gol de méxico), es de su responsabilidad el que haya decidido respaldarlo y volverlo a colocar. Borghi en esto es consecuente (y respetable por ello), si él apoya a un jugador, aunque este esté jugando como las huevas, igual lo va a respaldar, pero esto es de su responsabilidad y si el jugador posteriormente la caga, como finalmente aconteció, no puede esconderse y desentenderse de la responsabilidad que le cupo en su decisión del caso. El es "El Técnico". Lo mismo con todos los jugadores que entraron a la cancha y la disposición táctica de los mismos. Y si algo se ve que no está funcionando y más encima se está perdiendo y no se ve por donde se vaya a revertir esta situación, no puede esperar a que termine el primer tiempo para recién entonces hacer los ajustes necesarios, debió haber actuado en el momento. Venezuela pudo perfectamente terminar el primer tiempo 3 goles arriba a como estabamos jugando, pero por suerte ellos igual tienen sus limitaciones, pero si en vez de ellos hubiera sido Brasil o Argentina, nos habrían bailado y masacrado en el primer tiempo. Con una actitud como esta, el día del "ñafle", ganaremos algo importante. Yo no estoy contra de Borghi, e igual pienso que puede mejorar. No estoy pidiendo su cabeza ahora y aún creo que es demasiado prematuro el solo pensar en esta posibilidad. Al menos debe terminar un año, antes de pensarlo. Pero como fanático de nuestro equipo, no por ello tengo que aguantarle sus huevadas y mantenerme tranquilo si se pierde un partido como el del Domingo pasado. Nuestro equipo podía hacer mucho, pero mucho más de lo que se hizo. Y si se hubiese hecho, e igual hubiéramos perdido, me la como y no digo nada más. Pero no es el caso, y por ello descargo toda mí rabia por todo esto que nos ha pasado, sobre el principal artífice de nuestra actual desgracia : nuestro técnico, el sr. Borghi. Lo otro que me emputece de esta situación, al pensar en ello, es que los sacos de huevas de nuestra selección y los mandamases de la federación, en su momento igual celebraron el primer lugar de la fase de grupos con una parrillada en el Hotel Hyatt Mendoza, anunciado por Jadue y boys. No pudieron aguantarse hasta el fin de la Copa. Hubiera estado Bielsa, y los manda a todos a la cresta, pues la distracción que esto produce en la concentración del equipo puede ser nefasta, sobretodo si aún queda copa por jugarse, pero como al Bichi le gusta esta wevada y sobre todo las parrilladas, no podía decir que no. Putha que tengo rabia y mientras más lo pienso, más rabia me dá.
If the same mistakes occur over and over, I'd be inclined to think it is the coach's fault. Apparently there was an article on La Tercera yesterday that talked about how Borghi does not work on defensive set pieces during training? Could it be straight up amarillismo or is there some truth to that?
but when its been going on forever, regardless of who the coach is ... the players have to take responsibility in situations like that. Ponce lost his man to a simple screen...Bravo let a ball bounce and hit off his chest. There might be some room for criticism for player selection, but in the end with Borghi, Bielsa, Olmos, Acosta or whoever the defensive lapses have always been part of our reality. its the nature of our players BTW, i'd say that if we really want to get over this problem once and for all lets get Don Pelle on the job....most people, for whatever reason, hate this idea
Of course he is responsible for this. He is whom decided to line up that player to play. A reiterative mistake is preciselly the kind of issues any coach must be aware of, specially in regards to the players he and only he decides to use. And this issue is much more sensitive, when it regards the goal keeper who in its function for the team is the last man in order to avoid the other team from scoring, any mistake he has, is a potential opponents goal. The whole work done by his team mates, the coach, himself, the fans, day after day, could be put in jeopardy only to one of his mistakes. This is not amateur, friendly or neighbourhood football. It is suposed to be top level professional football. There is no place for sentimentalisms here. The player will always want to play, even if he is playing bad, so it is the coach's job to chose only those who can play or be useful for the team. If the coach's best friend is not up to what is expected from him, he must not play.
so you would have gone with Pinto? I don't remember us being too critical of Bielsa for starting Bravo in the WC
If a mistake is done, but perfectly solved afterwards, I also stay quiet and don`t say a thing about it. And Bielsa above all was a perfectionist, a man with an acute sense of self criticism where he always was trying to make things better, and if it meant to him making big sacrifices, even for his own personal confort, he never hesitated in doing so. So your usual hate on the guy doesn`t come up, as really valid to establish a point here. However, when Bravo played in the WC, he was playing superbly, so nothing would have justified taking him out of the team. Yes he fk-up big there when he gave the ball to Villa, and we all did wanted to kill him there, but the man made a mistake that wasn`t so usual in his normal behaviour as a goal keeper, (from time to time anyone can fk-up, as we are all humans), crucifying him there wasn't necessary back then. This time however in Copa America, he fk-up in the goal against Mexico and during almost all of the rest of his interventions in both games he played in group phase, the man was playing awful (when someone makes a big mistake, what is expected is that the someone worry on not doing it again, specially if he is a pro in an issue of his direct competence, and more important if he is the captain of the team). Yes, Borghi should have benched Bravo and put Pinto, who played very well against Peru. But as we all know, he always backs-up the players that he likes to stick with, which is a respectable atitude, but when he decides to back-up a player who is playing lousy, and the player fks-up, again, although that great part of the responsability belongs to the player, the responsability of whom decides to go on with him anyway, only belongs to the coach, who actually didn`t do his job right on this one. I hope he (Borghi) learned the ungrateful lesson this time, or else we are doomed for next qualifiers. In his position, he can`t be stubborn and he must try to put the best man for any position, regardless of his personal belief that he must back up a player, specially when you are practically playing for your life in a competition, as this quarter final match was.
Dude, i'm just noting the differences in how the fans are with Borghi and Bielsa. You can justify all you want, but Bravo has always been the same goalkeeper...a guy who is usually solid and superbly talented, but who in big game situations has a tendency to mess up. Its not like the mistake in South Africa was his first...he did the same thing in Colombia just a few games before, and has one of those brain farts every 4-5 games. And after the mess up against Spain he was still put in to play against Brazil, a team he historically chokes against. It was the right call, because he is our best goalie..... which is also why he was in net against Venezuela. if you're not going to crucify him for a horrible mistake against Spain in the WC, why would you do so for a lesser mistake against Mexico in CA? you wouldn't, and that's why you put him back out there.....that he messed up again is not Borghi's fault, or Bielsa's or anyone's but his own... it is time to look for alternatives though, but i'd still think he should be the starter
Valid points, but when the coach decides to back-up a player who has, or is, making continued mistakes, whatever good or bad that comes from his decission is part of his responsability. The coach of a team, is like the boss or the manager in any industry, if the workers mess up, the share holders or owners of it, will probably dismiss the workers, but they will also dismiss the manager, because as manager he should have taken all the required measures in order to avoid that the workers mess up, and as he didn`t, he is equally as guilty as the workers. The same thing goes in case of army or navy, being the highest ranked officer the one who has to take full responsability if anything goes wrong. In Football, this is part of the coach's job. I wasn`t aware before, only today I found it out, but, did you know, that Bravo, the day they left Santiago for this Copa America, became father ?, as his first son was born, and he left with the team towards Argentina, without even knowing him or being by his wife. Don`t you think, that the man could've possibly had his mind all messed up, due to this "almost insignificant" issue ?. Well, Borghi knew this fact and despite it, he decided to make him play anyway. And when Bravo made his first mistake against mexico, honestly, don`t you think that the coach could have got this play as a warning ?, that Bravo wasn`t in normal conditions or 100 % focused to asume the responsability and in condition to take all the pressure of having to defend his team. No my friend, Borghi is the coach, he is 100 % responsible for his call, and this time he fkd-up very big. Even lots bigger than whatever Bravo could've done. This together with the fact he didn`t put Valdivia from the first minute in such an important moment, is what costed us that game.
Fair point but to me this means nothing. So if every player on the NT becomes a father the day an important Copa America QF game is taking place, what can be done? we have to assume that the team will not be focused and thus will probably lose?
No, not the team, but that specific player is going to have undoubtly his head all messed up. It's just an issue of common sense. The same if someone in the family dies. Bravo shouldn`t have been capped, or at least they could've give him a diferential treatment like letting him travel afterwards and miss the first game against Mexico in order to be with his wife for such an important event in his life. Maybe, and here I am just assuming, if he would've traveled after being with his wife and his new born son, he would have played superbly afterwards. As that sort of event, and the hapiness that can give you, it works in minds of people as of doping, enhancing his will on life. On the contrary, not being there, makes you wonder many things, specially related to the health of both, which undermines the cappacity of concentration. Whomever has experienced being a father, like when it happened to me, may probably understand me better, of what I`m trying to say.
It's easy to be psychologists and medics from the outside... really there's nothing to say, as no one here knows anything about the mind-state of particular players or has enough information about the physical state of particular players. Borghi, I think, made a few mistakes in the Venezuela game. The biggest was putting Vidal on the left side... he doesn't play well there, and this team looks to build play up from the back and you can't do that with Medel and Carmona (neither are great going forward)... I also think that he shouldn't have insisted with Jara......if Jean was out put Medel at the back and bring in Estrada (who is playing at a great level) or Silva (who can do an adequate job in the middle)..... that's why the first half was lost..... but the second half was also won through coaching decisions...the changes were the correct ones (not only for who came in, but for the change in formation)........
This is true, imo though what I am worried about for the future is a Valdivia-dependence to get the attack going. Will this be something permanently attached to Chile whilst Borghi is in charge? Or was this mainly due to Fernández's injuries and Jiménez's inability to take over the playmaking duties? I really hope it's the latter. Otherwise, opposing teams will easily catch up.
yeah, that'd be the hope........ the thing is that Matias has had a great run with Borghi ... i trust either of them as the '10'.