Qatar 2022

The USA death rate, according to the World Bank is almost 800 per 100.000 in one year.
The figures used for construction workers, in OSHA or BLS, only include specific work related fatalities.
Don't mix indicators here, as they are both, 2 completely diferent things.

In regards to Qatar, all death counts regarding migrant workers (official and those of whom opose to the Qatar WC), the figures used is overall deaths within the migrant population, which includes all types of death causes, including among them due to work fatalities, due to accidents, due to natural causes, due to over age (very few as most migrant workers aren`t old), and due to diseases or diferent types of illness. So to have death rates of about 100-200 per 100.000 in one year, is a very low death rate to anybody in the whole world, without even considering if any of these deaths were due to the work specific issues.

Yes, I also got confused with these indicators here (took me some time to realize this, as I got myself deep into reading the reports you linked and posted and trying to find some esplanation), but finally or very recently, realized about my mistake that I was actually wrong in doing so, as they hold no resemblance between each other, and they are 2 diferent things.

As I said at the end of a past post, before you posted your links :

http://tribune.com.pk/story/683585/labour-report-on-world-cup-full-of-errors-qatar/

As I also said in another post, the ITUC is totally biased here, and with their own report over conditions in Qatar, also probably the reason why those western tabloids got influenced by them and published what they published, in relation to all of this.
In any case this is typical, coming from "yellow journalism": to publish things without checking the veracity of what they will publish.

They sure must be very aware of how many of their citizens actually live or have died being in Qatar, and if they accept the explanation given by Qatar officials regarding their own citizens, as of it being correct. What may surprise some people is the high amount of coronary diseases among those who died, as the report indicated, but if you were from India, it wouldn÷t surprise you as in India they have a very high prevalence of car
I am no one, to put in doubt what they say on respect to their citizens.

Btw, the Nepal government also has accepted the figures given by Qatar as being correct in regards to their own migrant citizens there.

X 2 .
It sure would help.

 

I don't see the relevance. I doubt there are many 65+ workers in Qatar and that's where the vast majority of US deaths occur.

The Indian embassy says its death rate is 482 per 100000. The US figure for 15-24 is 97, 25-34 142. I see 385 Nepalese deaths quoted but can't find the size of its migrant population. I suspect the vast majority of foreign workers fall into those age bands. I can't find any age specific information for Qatar's non-migrant population.

You love to throw out terms like "yellow journalism" and "tabloid journalism". Human Right Watch, Amnesty International, the Asian Human Rights Commission etc have all raised significant concerns about mortality rates and worker conditions in general in Qatar. Are they examples of "yellow journalism"?

The report indicates that a lot of young workers died of heart attacks. I don't see anything to substantiate the claim of high levels of coronary heart disease. But if true why are people with coronary heart disease being subjected to working in extremely high temperatures for long hours? Surely their health should be screened to try to reduce this toll?

From Amnesty International:

"Nepalese workers employed by the supplier said they were "treated like cattle". Employees were working up to 12 hour days and seven day weeks, including during Qatar’s searingly hot summer months."

Hmmm...

 

Nope, the vast majority of deaths in the USA occur in people younger than 60 years. The only reason why life expectancy reaches almost 78,5 years of age, is because the USA's population is predominantly older people with a very small proportion of infants within it. Same as most developed countries, btw.

Again wrong.
The Indian embassy recognized a total of about 500 deaths in a 2 years period (about 250 for each year) for a total of about 500.000 migrants from India whom work in Qatar, which means that the death rate of Indian citizens in Qatar was about 50 deaths per 100.000 per year (still lots lower than those for diferent age groups in the USA, that you mentioned).

I love to call them as what they are. As they will never asume any responsability in what they have been publishing since this "crap story" started, and very likely that they will continue doing so, as this type of "news", sells lots of papers, and their main interest is not the workers in Qatar, but the money they will make for themselves, selling their papers. They are equally as greedy as FIFA high executives.

In relation to those organizations you mentioned afterwards, all have raised concerns on working conditions for migrants in Qatar, which aren't in almost any way, among the best. There are lots of issues over it, over which Qatar must worry. But here is where these real concerns, end. Whom decided to go a lots further and started to raise concerns over death rates among construction workers was the ITUC, whom created the illusion as if all migrant deaths were due to work related issues and what is worse, pretending that the numbers of them is beyond any reasonable amount, which was nothing more than a very big strawman, fallacy or red herring (call it as you want so), so if the other organizations took it from where the ITUC left it, they would as well, have fallen in the same category as the ITUC : liars.
In any case the ITUC or the other organizations, aren't tabloids or newspapers or anything like it, so when they elaborate a report it is meant to describe a certain issue as how they want to see it. In their case it wouldn't be strictly called as yellow journalism, but sure would be a very biased tendencious report if they stick to only certain aspects and don't express the whole reality of what is being reported.

Well, for India it didn't cause them any surprise, as heart diseases are the main cause of death within Indian citizens in India, as well.
why do they work there, despite of this issue ?, ask them if they prefer to stay at home in India, without any job to feed their families, without any expectations of a better future and still with the heart disease in their body.
Life sucks, and sucks even more when your level of poverty is among the worst in the world.

Very likely that many of them, if questioned, lied about their health condition before making the trip to Qatar, as their need was lots bigger than the risk they took by making it.

Nice strawman.

Qatar already has acknowledged that working conditions for migrant workers, need lots of atention in order to solve those issues, and up till today, they are on it and doing lots of things in order to solve them.

 

Stop being anti-Qatari or get out of this thread.

 

I seem to remember games in the Silverdome in 1994. Is this a new rule?

 

Interesting why a fellow AFC member would say this. Surely the Qatari's will be outraged by this? But then again, they say they are ready, they say they could do it, but they don't say they want it. 2022 really is the world cup that nobody should want but Qatar. Who wants to the nation that got it, presumably by being the nation that forced Qatar out if it happens?

Recently, the Qatari's have been holding meetings with fellow associations, in memory I'm not sure if Japan is one, but i'm sure South Korea, China in the region is along with other nations such as Djibouti, Kyrgyzstan for example.

It's almost like Qatar are in the game of creating more links with nations so they are all practically in the same bed together.

 

I don't know how cutting the stadiums from 12 to 8 isn't a breach of contract. But, then how isn't changing from summer to winter in an openly solicited bids situation not racketeering? With FIFA you never know.

 

Japan and Australia are viable IF they have time. The only countries that could realistically host in with no time to prepare are the US, Germany and the UK (particularly if they use Ibrox and Celtic Park). And now I guess Brazil, but we know that won't happen. I'd say 2018 would be the deadline to move to any country but those 4.

 

Statement from the Supreme Committee for Delivery & Legacy
We would like to clarify news reports which state that Qatar has reduced the number of proposed Host Venues for the 2022 FIFA World Cup™ because of cost concerns and delays.


The process of selecting the final proposed line-up of host venues is ongoing in consultation with FIFA. Given the size of our country, FIFA and the Local Organising Committee decided to look into reducing the originally proposed 12 venues to fit the country’s specifications while ensuring best playing conditions for all 64 matches. Generally FIFA requests a minimum of eight stadia for hosting the FIFA World Cup.

The 2022 Local Organising Committee will submit by December 2014 a proposal for an appropriate number of host venues, whilst ensuring a suitable legacy for the country and the national league after the tournament. The approval of the final number of stadiums is envisaged by the FIFA Executive Committee by March 2015.

http://www.qfa.com.qa/statement-from-the-supreme-committee-for-delivery-legacy-2/

 

Japan's football chief has apologised to Qatar 2022 World Cup organisers after he reportedly stated his country was ready to step in as replacement hosts -- and insists he fully supports the decision to stage the tournament in the emirate.

http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/...ogizes-qatar-2022-replacement-comment?cc=5739

 

The more time goes by,the less their organisation process looks like what they had initially promised considering the FIFA requirements...

 

Qatar isn't changing from summer to winter. It's FIFA.

I am not a lawyer. However. I would think that the nations that lost out to Qatar have a pretty ironclad lawsuit against FIFA in any non-corrupt jurisdiction, based on the schedule change. But the political costs of a successful lawsuit obviously outweigh the potential gains. The only thing that would change that is if the nations that drive the money in FIFA (Brazil, Argentina, Japan, SoKo, the US, Mexico, and the richer half of Europe) decide to break away from FIFA. At that point, there's no downside to Australia and the US suing FIFA to get back their bid costs.

FIFA is walking a very, very fine line. They wield enormous power, but it's only because the member nations allow them to. If the big money member nations decide "the hell with it" then FIFA becomes a huge bag of nothing pretty much immediately.

 

FIFA has enormous power because of the countries that matter letting them. If the "big 7" of Europe (England, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Portugal and the Netherlands) split with Argentina, Brazil and the money pit that is the US, FIFA's power would evaporate. That's it, 10 countries leaving could break their monopoly.

The real problem is that when some Qatari shows up at your front door with a pile of high class hookers and a four star around the world trip do you say no? Whether it's FIFA or not, the entire culture that makes that sort of thing legal and within the rules needs to go away. There's no point in fighting FIFA until they get rid of the giant loopholes that allow for millions in "country tours" and the like.

 

Those countries you mention are part of FIFA, and many of them are an integral part of FIFA's Exco, so the split should come deep within themselves, against themselves. Not likely that something as wild as it sounds, to ever happen.

 

Blind speculation as stated. The point being UEFA working with others has the power to bite into FIFA's strength. It's also fair to note UEFA likely won't do anything to upset Qatar 2022.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20140330/uefa-league-of-nations-fifa/

And that's where we come to the bigger picture. This, I should stress, is speculation, a possibility rooted in logic rather than hard fact. Within FIFA, UEFA is always engaged in an understandable power struggle -- between themselves, the historical home of the game that still generates the bulk of football's revenue, and emerging regions who feel UEFA is too dominant. If UEFA has not just the European Championship but also the League of Nations with which to raise revenue, it is an enormous bargaining chip. Sepp Blatter has repeatedly told the Asian and African confederations that they deserve greater representation at the World Cup; UEFA, as the confederation with the most qualifying slots, would be the confederation to surrender a place. If it has a lucrative League of Nations to fall back on, UEFA might conceivably be able to turn its back on FIFA altogether: it could even add nations from other confederations -- Brazil and Argentina, more obviously, but perhaps also Mexico or the USA -- to bypass FIFA altogether."

 

"The Sports Business Journal reported the total rights fee for the U.S. to be between $1.05 billion and $1.1 billion, an increase of at least 147 percent over the combined $425 million that ESPN and Univisión paid for the rights to the '10 and '14 tournaments."

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...10/21/fox.world.cups/index.html#ixzz30OWtDt55

That money goes straight to FIFA, and then they put the burden of paying for the actual World Cup on the host country. That's a lot of hookers and private jet rides.

So what happens if UEFA were to leave FIFA? Well, no US broadcaster in their right mind would dream of paying more than a few million for the WC without Europe. The deal for the 2016 Copa America will pretty much tell you what anyone will pay. So I imagine the US would be invited to compete in any League of Nations and told to bring the change purse along.

 

European Leagues to oppose Winter World Cup

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/spo...gues-to-oppose-winter-World-Cup-in-Qatar.html

 

Jerome Champagne promises to consider stripping 2022 off Qatar if elected FIFA President. So, generally, he's telling Asia he's not the President for them. He's telling developing nations he isn't for them. Just for the rich and powerful European nations??

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/spo...Cup-investigation-creating-difficulties-.html

 

What makes you think that Asia is 100% behind Qatar? There are several Asian nations that would be happy to see the World Cup moved, especially if it was moved to their country.

 

Hmm.... could one of those countries be... Australia? ;-)

Seriously though, after visiting my brother in Melbourne a couple of months ago and checking out the Victory vs. Sydney game, I'd totally support a WC there. Loads going on there, stadiums/transport already in place and economically booming - I'm sure Australia would put on a great World Cup!

 

I honestly thought that Australia would get the bid over the US. I had no idea Qatar was even in play. Australia makes the most sense. They may not have dozens of fancy, new retractable roof stadiums, but they have enough to make it happen. And having it there would do more to grow the game than probably anywhere else, considering it would be easy for Indonesians, Malays and Filipinos to attend.

 

I didn't say 100%, but don't you think with his comments that he appears to be looking to get the bigger nations voting for him which can only mean the majority of small footballing nations will suffer.

And then we have 2018 World Cup, no promises there in that (admittedly small) article.