Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. New England Revolution - June 23, 2012 (R)

At Frings' age.......in a north American summer league......playing 4 matches in 11 days (which is where we will be by this time next week) was always going to be tough......with a 2-nil lead at that point in a home match.....Frings had to come off.....even he was not at all surprised. Sure it all went pear shaped an, with hindsight, we can say WTF .....but it was the right move and we should have been able to see this out......but we did not.

wow. losing 9 is sad. doing it with a super expensive roster adds insult to it. but blowing real wins like that lately... that's insane. i feel sorry for these fans.

I don't get the hate for Rongen's colour commentary. He doesn't have the greatest voice but at least he knows what he's talking about unlike many colour commentators. I'll take a good analysis over a decent voice on most days

We played good for about 60 minutes this game, then we stopped pressing New England high up the field and started hoffing the ball up the field every time we got possession. Again like I said before in the Houston game this team doesn't know how to take control of the ball and knock it around to make teams work to earn it. What we do is defend deep, kick it up the field and face wave after wave of attack, especially with our poor our back line is talent wise it never going to work.

I would love to know how many times over the years have we given up goals in injury time, I believe this is the 3rd time this season alone it has happen.

Problem was they were replacing him with Emory .. TFC needs depth .. they've never really had it..

i think the subs are being dwelled on too much. we've given up leads or draws with Frings and JDG on the field many a time before - getting them rest was a logical gamble to take. TFC defensive letdowns is practically a team epidemic (but especially from the young defensive core) and can't simply be traced to the substitutions.

personally, i'm thankful we now have a midfield to speak of. and 5 goals in the past 2 games. and points. considering the short period of time Mariner has had to work with them as head coach, i'd call this progress. i'd rather be annoyed with a draw than indifferent to defeat, which is what many were feeling after the 6th, 7th, 8th....9th consecutive loss. we'll win again!

I love Rongen's energy and enthusiasm. Whenever I hear him, it always sounds like he wants to lace up his boots and play again (we could use depth at DM btw).

As for the game, in the first half we deserved to win, going away. In the second half we deserved to lose, going away. In the end it was a draw and had we scored the two goals in the second half, we would all be talking about the amount of fight on this team and Mariner would be a genius.

Instead, in typical TFC fashion it had to be the other way around. We had to score two, come out slow in the second half then with 10 minutes to go, look completely gassed. If they weren't gassed, they better have some good reason for why they decided to park the bus at home when this team only has one win all year. I question the ambition of TFC when we're still trying protect a leads at home instead of trying to add to one.

I noticed that Dunfield was made captain after JDG. Really? Captain? That's the guy who is setting examples for other players late in the game? Good grief.

I'm not annoyed at the subs because I thought that JDG or Frings would have done better in midfield than Hall or Lambe or because Avila would have done better than Silva, I'm annoyed at them because JDG Frings and Avila weren't the players that had to come out. The biggest difference for me between the first and second halves was Koevermans and Johnson running. In the first half they pressured NE's defenders to force them to make quick decisions and then tracked back into the midfield and defense to help out. They did the most work and running of anyone in that half. In the second half they were gassed and couldn't keep it up. The attack is the first line of defense and they were allowed to tire out and become ineffective, so in essence we lost out first line of defense in the second half. It's why every time the defenders kicked the ball up (no different from the first half) New England got to walk right back into our end. The Midfield isn't what needed refreshing, the attack was.
Also, Avila wasn't losing effectiveness at all, so making a non tactical sub of him for Silva didn't change anything other than use up a sub to prove that he isn't in the bad books
If Frings and JDG really were gassed than fine, but the Avila sub still doesn't make sense. Probably should have been Koevermans or Johnson for Silva

I agree with this point because in the latter stages of the second half with the subs TFC ended up having a very tired Johnson seemingly playing on the left side of midfield and, though doing his best, had no legs. His tired lunge in the corner where he slid out of touch while the NE guy easily danced around him and played in a cross was one glaring example.

But both Frings and later de Guzman were on empty when they came off, imo. Momentum was shifting in midfield before the Frings' sub (he got rocked pretty hard just prior to that so maybe that was an issue?), so would it have made a difference keeping them on? I don't know. I'm just a neutral here but I was pulling hard for TFC today and sincerely feel for the hardcore supporters out there.

definitely. was disappointed Avila came off.

Also the cause of so much exhaustion cannot be ignored. The players are on empty by the 70th because they have to work their asses off unnecessarily because of the complete disregard for possession by many of the players (and encouraged by the coach). The strikers are exhausted because every time we win the ball they have to go running around trying to win the long ball. The midfielders are exhausted because they're constantly trying to pressure the other team to try to get the ball back. Then when they get it they punt it away and they have to start again.

Agreed, it was ugly football even when we were winning

fire anselmi

Another factor is poor decision-making in the last two or three minutes. Has nobody on this team ever heard of playing the ball into the opposing corner and just holding it there? Sometimes you can even win a corner out of it which will waste another 30 seconds before you take it and then play it short and repeat the process. There were a couple of opportunities to play the ball in the corner in stoppage time but every time a TFC player had the ball near midfield, they just cleared it away and surrendered possession. Stupid! There's just no other word for it.

In order to do that, they'd need to bring on some fresh legs, preferably a striker with some blazing speed. You know, like Joao Plata.

A great point - Plata would have been a great sub to put on over the final 5 minutes (or more).

Plata was injured in training the other day. It's funny that the kid who Mariner brought in in the off season, Lambe, played better for Winter than for Mariner. Under Mariner he's been one of the worst players, or rather one of the players suffering the most. He's supposed to be a fast right winger who likes to run at defenders and put crosses in. Yet under Mariner he's been completely invisible, and for the most part is in the furthest location from the side line.

Keep in mind that this was the first TFC game I've watched under the Mariner regime, so these are my first thoughts. On the positive side, Morgan was consistently sending in good crosses for the first time since last season. He was by far the best player on the pitch for the first hour (Kocic being the best in the last half hour). Koevermans has finally caught fire. I dont get all the hate for RJ. I think he's one of our best players, but he never gets a rest so he's never at 100%. Avila was good yesterday too. We're actually coming out of the gates flying now instead of only waking up after half an hour and down by two which was the norm during the 1-10 run. Frings looked gassed and I dont blame Mariner for taking him off but I agree that one of Koev and RJ shouldve been off instead of Avila. And lol @ captain Terry.

But they still have the same problem they've had for the past 6 seasons: they have no idea how to close out a game. The minute Bretsshider or whatever his name is scored everyone wearing a red jersey looked shell-shocked for the rest of the game and were almost waiting for the revs to score.

Mariner is chucking everything we've been working on over the last year out the door and I don't like it. I like how we look a little more aggressive but that's about it. The defense is still a gongshow and we have no buildup play. Simplifying things a bit is fine. Basically telling players to forget everything and just pump it up the field even if there's no pressure is not. It's already been said in the thread, players just pointlessly chasing the ball around tires them and at the end of this game they were gassed. That along with our usual inability to close out a game is why we didn't win against a team that was there for the taking today.

If the rumors I've heard that Soolsma going is true, then that's something I dont agree on. Mariner probably sees him as a Winter guy, not as an MLS guy, but he's wrong. Martina was a Winter guy, not an MLS guy. Soolsma is a Winter guy who came to MLS and adapted, becoming an "MLS guy" imo. He's been one of our most consistent and useful players this season and I dont see why he can't keep his form going.

TFC under this set of players isnt suited to 4-4-2. Maybe not 4-3-3, but at least 4-2-3-1 or a more conservative 4-3-3 (though that's pretty much the same thing). Or a 4-3-3 like the one SKC uses.

Firing Winter still looks like the wrong move. Cripples us long-term, and doesn't seem to do much short-term either.

As for Rongen, yeah, his enthusiasm is good and he does actually know what he's talking about. I liked him in the RSL game because he was talking about soccer and didnt say anything stupid.
Yesterday was like another person altogether. How could any of you stand his constant basketball references? Did he not realize that he was commentating for a game on GolTV, a channel only people who like soccer would have, and where he didnt need to make references to other things and sports for people to get interested.
Oh, and towards the end when TFC were just waiting to get scored on Rongen wouldnt shut up about how TFC were destined to win. And we all know that never happens in these circumstances. But Rongen was all like "this is TFC's day. They're defending so well. They're soaking up all that pressure from New England. They fat lady is about to sing! The fast lady is - oh...well...err...as you can see Dan, TFC did not do a good job defending that cross...oh well, blah blah blah Brian Westbrook."

I'm amazed none of you were infuriated by his BS

For anyone who was at the game, what was the general sentiment from the crowd?

lol just realized I said Brian Westbrook instead of Russell...must be Rongen messing with my brain

I was in the supporter section with my friend for this game. I could say it was basically dead, nobody was chanting, i'm trying to ignite a few with the others around me, but still it was a failure. Probably it was the hot weather, this is probably also why the players were playing so bad during the second half?