Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. CD Chivas USA - April 14, 2012 (R)

I still say its better then watching Chad Barret but the midfield..........ugh.

First 0-5 start in team history.....wonder how many 0-5 starts there has been in league history?

After the loss in Montreal, Winter was clearly angry at someone and said there would be changes.........I guess we know now who he was angry at.

One pattern of behaviour we should know from Winter is that he loves to forego half time substitutions for the far more disruptive "5 minutes into the half"substitutions. This one was delayed to the 55 minute mark while they awaited a stoppage.

Just what he learns about players in the first 5 minutes of the second half we will never know.

I've decided that I will not watch an other minute of Duncefield. If he's listed in the starting XI, I won't be watching the game until he gets subbed out (which never happens, so basically I won't watch the game at all). It's honestly not worth my time. The guy does absolutely NOTHING. He refuses to make forward passes if there's an opponent anywhere nearby (probably for the best because his passes can be up to twenty degrees off the passing lane), and he doesn't like getting the ball. One instance that stood out to me was when the winger (Johnson?) had the ball in our half with the setup looking like this:
|Winger
|
|----------Dunfield
|-Morgan
^
touch line
the only person with an opponent anywhere near them was the winger, so he needed a outlet. Dunfield had lots of space from where he could've switched the play if he got the ball, but instead he made the winger send the ball back to the fullback.

That might not sound like a huge deal, but for me it showed a complete lack of forward intent which he continued to show throughout the game.

He also doesn't move to get open for a pass when a teammate has the ball. I noticed that a lot of the time he has an opposing player in the lane between the ball carrier and him, and he makes no effort to get an open lane.

And no, he isn't good defensively either. he doesn't apply any pressure when the other team has the ball, and aimlessly jogs from one non passing lane to the next non passing lane, and points to players who are running open expecting someone else to close them down. NO DUNFIELD, that's YOUR job to close them down.

And please, before telling me that he's alright, give me examples of things that he's doing well. And no, the fact that he seems to care doesn't cut it for me.

I honestly wouldn't care that much about him if he didn't play one of the most important positions on the pitch

This.

Was thinking the same. Silva's going to be a good player, but he's a rookie and young and shouldn't be in the starting 11 when you have Avila.

Well I said earlier this was a must win. It was. I think the playoffs are out now. It's too bad, I thought we played decent today. No bad mistakes at the back. Cann looked good back there. And in the second half we had decent scoring opportunities. They had at least two goal line saves.

But in the end it's all about results. We're 0-5. That's all that matters.

I think that's a little premature - there's still 29 weeks left in the season.

I didn't really get Winter's midfield choices today. OK fine, JDG is in his doghouse evidently, so he sat on the bench today, but that means Dunfield is your best replacement option. Then playing Silva over Avila? I agree with the above post that Silva has talent but it's not the time to play him when you need a win and you already have a weakened midfield.

Avila made two beautiful pin-point passes to Johnson among other great plays during the time he was on the field. Too bad we couldn't see what he could have done had he been out for the full 90.

TFC Ajax, everyone knows about Dunfield. No, he shouldn't see the field, but you can practically set a watch to your long-winded pointless bi-weekly railing of him. He's not the issue, Aron Winter selecting him is the issue, yet you never talk about Winter?

I rep the Avila love, yet again the only time we appear threatening is when he's on the field..too bad he's barely used! This team in any other hands and there would be wins by now. Winter's post-game comments claiming yet again that we're playing good is insulting.

with the small amount of penetration we get playing an "offensive system", it's easy to see why we lose. It's not that I hate playing the Dutch system, but it's maddening when we never see 4-4-2, especially with Frings out. People have said that we have a specific mindset and infrastructure but that's bologna because everyone knows how to play 4-4-2 (Chivas transition to 4-5-1 pretty flawlessly today) and we'd have points by now if we played it.

True. Maybe it's harsh. But this is five games we've lost, three of them at home. We're going to have to be really phenomenal from here on in to make this up.

I quite like Avila (think he may have been in my starting eleven proposed pre-match ) and have no reason to defend Silva but.......you really gotta be careful extrapolation when it comes toe how a sub performs.

The starterplays all match against their starters....the sub sits, observes what is and isn't working, sees who is getting open, has things pointed out to him by the staff and the enters the match without, either, mental or physical fatigue.......I think that attack-minded central midfielders the position that benefits most from those circumstances.

It may have been better with Avila from the start......but who can be sure?

We actually played alright in the 2nd half, but the 1st half was painful. This is the only game where overall we actually were A BIT unlucky to lose, but at the end of the day we dont deserve anything more than a 0-0-5 record. Not sure if I can bring myself to watch the game against Chicago next week, even with Frings coming back

And Winter, stop making excuses. Man up and at least admit that we have not "done it well". And stop benching Avila.

I wouldn't "Minda" having a player like the Chivas' Oswaldo in the holding mid spot in place of both Dunfield and De Guzman. Looks like the Goats clearly got the better of this year's Ecuadorian signings. He looked like a real presence out there, even separate from his winning goal today.

That's wild ... a 1.6 million dollar/yr player riding the bench in MLS! De Guzman must feel he's in the NBA!! Winter can't afford the luxury of a doghouse .. their talent is thin. The De Guzman signing was a disaster, it put the fairness of the salary structure out of whack and cost them Dero. And I'm sure he's not the only one that resented it. The team psychology reprecussions of paying a player a fortune in a pinch-pennies league who isn't close to being worth it, well, must be rather serious. Winter he can't trade DG away for a bag of balls like he did with Dero, though he probably would if he could...

i think our biggest inspiration would have to be last years Chicago Fire, didn't they have a horrendous first 10 games but narrowly missed the playoffs?

@Cloak: I'm neither sold on Winter, nor am I ready to say that he's a bad coach. But I am constantly baffled by the lineups that he puts out. I don't say "well Winter f*cked up the lineup again today" because it's obvious who's putting out the lineups that I'm constantly criticizing. I hate the fact that Winter fields Duncefield game after game, but Dunfield is also being paid.
Also, if you read the first part of my rant, it seems an awful lot like I'm complaining about Dunfield being played doesn't it. The things that I point out are things that Winter should be seeing, and so that's a mark against him.

The reason I'm not willing to call for Winter's head is that I REALLY want his system to be successful. I strongly believe that the Dutch system can work just fine in MLS, so I have hope that once Winter starts fielding the right personnel (because eventually he'll have no choice) we'll finally start playing the way the system is meant to be played

Mark that time and date. 5 minutes into the 15th day of April in the year 2015........TFC's (perhaps all Toronto's sports scene's) patheticness was aptly described by Cloak!

We really do need to draw inspiration from club's who narrowly missed the playoffs.

Right. With any luck we'll narrowly miss the playoffs again and then we'll just blame it on a poor start and Frings injury and continue on with the status quo next year.

I thought it was interesting during the TSN2 broadcast in the line up introduction segment that Wileman and de Vos barely batted an eye when de Guzman was not in the starting XI (all the focus on Frings and Cann) but then alluded to it after the game was under way, de Vos implying that de Guzman's future at TFC may not be that good. Who knows.

Cann's performance, hopefully combined with the young Henry for the next string of matches, may allow for Frings to move back into the holding mid spot he was brought here for in the first place and then he can be teamed with younger, quicker players like Avila and the inexperienced but big engine, ball winning abilities of Stinson.

I don't get it: it was Dunfield that cost the team the opening goal v. Montreal, yet it's De Guzman the one he benches. Dunfield is a marginal player at best; De Guzman is at least CAPABLE of big games. Yet it's De Guzman the one Winter benches, and he sticks by Dunfield, who had a horrid game v. Montreal. Terrible decision by Winter.

Still, Toronto could have easily had 2-3 goals in the 2nd half alone. Unfortunate in the end they didn't come away with at minimum a draw. Toronto needs to go kill a chicken or something before their next game, change their luck.

Good game yesterday. I thought you guys were the better team in the second half by a mile. Minda is a gem that we uncovered late last year. He has Copa Libertadores experience. Bolanos is the guy we're hoping to step up next.

I know it's not my place, but I think with a few extra pieces, TFC can turn it around. That 4-3-3 is lethal when it works.

Good luck the rest of the season, amigos.

ELAC

I liked his all around play yesterday, for sure. LaBrocca (or Whitecaps' reject Vagenas) should be buying this guy dinner on a regular basis.

Vagenas is a joke. Virtually every Chivas USA fan hates this scumbag. He's getting a paycheck because Robin Fraser is his friend.

LaBrocca was our Minda last year. He blew up and half of us had no idea where he came from.

Minda has to control his temper. He's a walking yellow card when he's pissed.

...and we are already 18 points behind KC... I'm an eternal optimist, but this is just like year 3,,,year 4,,, year 5... What was it that George W. said so well? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me for 5 years and I won't get fooled again. Playoffs?? Hmmm, maybe next year...

hahah ughhgh/ it's true though, a sniff of the top 10 looks pretty class at this point. i just want meaningful games at the end of the schedule waaaa