Poll: Johanssen Handling call

Discussion in 'Referee' started by chwmy, Nov 20, 2012.

?

Is the handling call on Johannsen correct?

  1. Yes: made himself bigger

    82.2%
  2. No: unintentional

    17.8%
  1. chwmy

    chwmy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010


  2. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

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    Yep, Atlanta
  3. sjt8184

    sjt8184 Member

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    DC United
    Grade 8. Hope this is productive and not just another the same arguments
  4. JimEWrld

    JimEWrld Member

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    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    7. Definite handling.


  5. soccerman8067

    soccerman8067 Member

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    Jul 24, 2008
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    Manchester United FC
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    United States
    6. Agree with Geiger.
  6. Hattrix

    Hattrix Member

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    Sep 1, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago
    Eight: Handling.
  7. Paper.St.Soap.Co

    Paper.St.Soap.Co Member+

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    Jul 29, 2010
    Grade 9 Emeritus. Handling.
    GoDawgsGo repped this.
  8. chwmy

    chwmy Member

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    Feb 27, 2010
    I'm looking for some validity/impartiality: hard to know if we are getting it since there are so many more votes than people willing to say who they are.... All the same, if we get a clear consensus, that may give the novice referee (like me) some guidance that he can use for himself later, and perhaps cool down the obstinacy in the other thread.
  9. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member

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    Please upload pic of badge :laugh:
    OMGFigo repped this.
  10. Paper.St.Soap.Co

    Paper.St.Soap.Co Member+

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    I tried twice, but the glitter on the badge keeps giving me glare from the camera flash. Maybe next year, I hear OSI is coming out with a new badge design that has less pizzazz.
  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009

    It may or it may not. As a general rule, the higher the level of soccer, the more there is a presumption that what players do is controlled and deliberate. Things that are deliberate in the MLS or the World Cup may not be in a u12 game where pre-adolescents may naturally flail around like an octopus.

    You also need to beware of over generalizing from a single event. The details matter. I'd suggest that you're going to get more food for thought from reading the comments in the other thread than you are from a poll. But even there, you need to separate the mental gyrations from mutliple views in super slow mo and paused still action shots and angels dancing on the head of a pin from the in the moment, one angle, one time, what do I call. Ultimately, it is ITOOTR whether the handling was deliberate -- and all the tools we talk about ("unnatural position," "biggering," "ballto hand," etc.) are nothing more than tools in your arsenal to assist you in making that judgment.

    I'd humbly suggest that you've already learned everything you're going to learn from this event and are ready to move on . . .
    jeffmefun, OMGFigo and joe-soccer repped this.
  12. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member

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    I would say what makes this handling (which was my vote above) was the way he was flailing his arms pre cross, combined with the fact that it looks to me like it hit his right hand. Had his hands not been wind-milling, and had it simply hit his left hand, I'd be fine with a ck. But the totality of his actions makes the case for me that it was deliberate.
    OMGFigo and jayhonk repped this.
  13. tomek75

    tomek75 Member

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    St. Louis
    In my opinion it is definitely a hand ball. He made himself bigger on purpose.

    Just passed for a Grade 7, 1 year as a USSF Referee.
    OMGFigo repped this.
  14. tog

    tog Member

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    Location:
    Seattle
    Apologies, I voted before I read the first post and saw the fan qualification. You can retract my vote from the total (although, I have held the same opinion on similar calls in games toward which I am completely neutral). Sorry about that. It might even make sense to put the qualification in the survey answers, if that's possible. I imagine that accounts for most of the discrepancy.

    Retired grade 7.
  15. Erocker

    Erocker Member

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    Apr 2, 2012
    Club:
    CD Jalapa
    6. No way, he's a yard away with his arm down by his side. He thinks Keane is going to cross it down the goal line so he tries to block it with the outside of his left foot. To me it's very unlucky to have it hit your arm in this situation.
  16. DazzRef

    DazzRef Member

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    Grade 7, Handling - the defender, while not running at full speed, has both arms outstretched, and is making himself bigger. He's trying to gain an advantage by using his position and the end line to contain the attacker. Watching the play in slow-motion the appearance is not only that the arms are out, but that the reaction of the hand flexes up to deflect the ball over the end line, with the arm being positioned backwards. If the arm was down and back, and the ball deflected downward towards the ground, then I believe Geiger wouldn't have made the PK call. Contrary to what some have said, I didn't detect a 2nd touch by the opposite hand, but if that did occur, then this would give further credence to the call.

    Just my $.02....
    Aaron
  17. SA14mars

    SA14mars Member

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    FC Dallas
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    Grade 7. Handling
  18. OMGFigo

    OMGFigo Member

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    Location:
    SoCal
    G8, 6 yrs, Handles the ball deliberately (by making himself bigger).
  19. Errol V

    Errol V Member

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    Mar 30, 2011
    Sorry for not voting, but my response is not one of the choices. My gut feel is that although the right arm was in an unnatural position, I would not have been able to tell that the ball actually contacted it. In fact, I can't even tell from the replays. So I would like to not call this one, but I would, because everyone would be expecting me to.

    Handling. Grade 8 (because although I can easily pass the fitness test, I have never been able to make the scheduled times because I am also coaching).
  20. Gary V

    Gary V Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Location:
    SE Mich.
    Grade 8, 15 years exp.

    I voted for handling, but it's a really close call. He has made himself bigger but was also using his arm to balance.

    At that level of play, it's handling. In a U14 rec game that I'm calling, it's probably not.
  21. Justin Z

    Justin Z Member

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    Everton FC
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    8, handling.
  22. socref79

    socref79 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Referee (7) and Instructor (9) in my 17th year officiating.

    Agree with Geiger. Johanssen's arms routinely make his body bigger while anticipating a cross. He can then portray himself as innocent while gaining a much bigger profile to block the cross. At this level, handling IMO. In youth, much less likely.
  23. campbed

    campbed Member

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    Oct 13, 2006
    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    12. Oh good grief. Look at the fan at 3o second mark and his arms. This is Pro level. At this level this is what the defender looks like (to his teammates too). Arms windmilling around like he is in high school. Handling and I'm with Geiger 100%. Defend like a pro, and lets get on with the PK.

    He is not unlucky, he is not in control of his body.
    sjt8184 repped this.

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