Playing Without a Keeper?

Interesting, thanks. (Dang, I really need to sit down and read the new ATR.)

Believe it or not, I actually used this "rule" recently to help shut down what might otherwise have developed into a mass confrontation. Very contentious HS varsity boys game, I was AR. My center whistles for a foul several yards above the arc on my end and goes for his pocket. Several defenders immediately start making vocal protests and moving towards him, while attackers square up in the other direction. This looks ugly enough that I run out onto the field to try to help maintain order. I quickly get most of the defenders backed away, and then see the keeper, with fire in his eye, decide to join the fray and come charging out from his goal. I'm thinking to myself, uh oh, this will be "the straw that breaks the cannibal's back." I step into his path, throw up a big stop sign, and holler "Don't do it keep! If you come outside your area it's an automatic yellow card!"

Well, he slams on the brakes like a jet fighter catching its tailhook, looks at me and says "Really? I didn't know that," turns around and trots meekly back to his goal, and everything calmed down. Who would have imagined?

EDIT: I just remembered that this "rule" also ended my son's senior year season. They're tied with two minutes left in regular time in the state AAAAAA quarter-finals. His team's left back gets viciously hammered on a late tackle right at the feet of the AR, who stands there like a lamp post and then signals for a throw-in for the other side. Teammates go nuts, and my son – goalkeeper, captain and knucklehead-in-chief – comes charging out to remonstrate with the ref and AR. Bang, yellow card and he's on the bench. Freshman backup keeper comes in, immediately gets caught off his line and allows the winning goal, and the horn blows — season over.

 

The reason I bring up keeper/captain is, everyone else knows he's a captain too. It may not carry any weight within the LOTG, but it carries weight with the other players and gives me a reason to schew them away and only talk to the keeper (as long as he's respectful).

 

I will disagree. I have stood at many a captain's meeting in which the CR has specifically told the captains' that you represent your team, you keep them under control and you speak for them, blah, blah, blah. If you give those instructions in pregame to the teams are you really now going to go to the card if they try to address you?

I am being a bit rhetorical here, as I suppose common sense applies here, as in the manner in which and the distance covered and the timing on how the GK would address the CR (such as a Morhino-inspired dog pile on the ref as opposed to a reasonable discussion). If a GK came with proper tone and discussion, I don't think I would automatically go for dissent.

And, as I teach my U-12 players/goalkeepers (for playing purposes), the PA is not invisible dog fencing, you are allowed to leave the area for playing purposes. There is no requirement to stay in it. There should be some common sense applied in the situation if a GK/Captain is attempting to address the referee. It looks equally dumb if he is yelling to you at midfield.

 

I had thought that exactly. On a side note, I'm pretty sure that is exactly what they hear. "[...] you speak for your team blah, blah, blah."

I was at a re-cert where a ref was trying to defend his 5 minute pregame conference with the captains when finally a college captain said, "We aren't listening when you're talking."

 

Yeah, this game has a chance of going well.

 

There are some competitions that state that the GK's entire uniform must contrast with his team and the other keeper and team.

 

and most games featuring two higher level teams, sure they will be invested in a GK who in turn will have the shining kit and $150 gloves.

Third division U-12 (and even older) you will get the rotating part-time goalkeeper wearing a pinnie and perhaps a pair of $20 team-shared gloves. They are likely not taking part in one of those 'competitions.'

 

That pretty much sums up my u10s!

 

I was merely making a point that captains have no special rights. As a reminder of where I stand on the whole captains topic, I have respect and tolerance for the leaders on the team which isn't always the captain. If the GK fits that description I would be happy to consider listening to what he has to say if he hasn't completely tied my hands (i.e., came running and screaming from the PA, questioning the heritage of my mother and so forth). What exactly could you see the GK asking you, as a representative of his team, that realistically requires him running out to "chat" when he should be setting up the defense for the FK? Note: I'm really curious, not being a jerk.

As far as the pregame discussion goes, you would never catch me dead giving silly instructions like that. First, I hate long pregame discussions with the captains. Second, you are giving them a platform for the whole game. "But ref, you said I was the representative!" "Yes, but you are being an ass."

For what it's worth, I think you've made me re-think my statement that coming out of the PA is always an act of dissent -- but the GK sure is hell going to have to work hard to prove to me it's not, if that makes sense.

 

And I was playing a bit of devil's advocate, so I was trolling/being a jerk a bit. That said, I don't feel that a GK should be only confined to the PA. They should be treated as any other player. Look, any player that is going to run 30 yards to 'debate' you ala John Terry, likely deserves a card. But if a keeper comes 5 yards outside his box to argue/question it is automatic distention but a field player can move five yards to you and debate in the same manner is treated differently? Again It is not a wireless dog fence. The GK can leave the box.

And never did I give any of the players credit for being smart and doing the right thing.

Most likely if you gave such permission, you aren't aware of too much beside your own opinion.

My job here is done

 

Strongly recommend never saying anything is automatic. It's not. Highly probable, sure, but not automatic. And if he does come out and the R doesn't give the caution (or the other GK comes out later and isn't cautioned), you've hurt your credibility and that of the whole team.

 

Absolutely -- nice way of saying that.

 

Understood. Purely heat of the moment (tempered with the confidence that the center would have backed me up).

 

High level u12 b's pre academy small sided. GK's usually can be found above the ac or further when they have the ball.

 

Sadly, that was my GU-17 team for a season - GK injured and played a 'rotation'. We did play those 'competitions', which was "interesting".

 

State high school girls semi-final, biggest schools division. I'm AR1. Late in the game, 0-0, home team attacker dribbling like she's Maradona around several defenders who are suddenly acting like they are cones. Visiting team keeper comes out and dives on the ball. Unfortunately, she is eight to ten yards outside the penalty area. Unfortunately, she was the last defender. The referee blows the whistle and comes over to me. "She has to go, right?" I nod my head and he sends her off. Girl from the JV team that had been brought up to the varsity by the coach just to experience the playoffs has to come in for the rest of the game, never having played a minute of varsity ball ever. They lost, 1-0. I felt very badly for her being put in that situation, but it was as blatant a DOGSO as you'll ever see. Of course, the local chat sites the next day are attacking me, by name, for wanting the visiting team to lose, etc. I wasn't even the referee!

 

Yeah, but somebody saw the head nod and understood the significance thereof. Just part of the cost of your celebrity status ...

 

Same for me, but with pink!

 

Ah, good memory!

The reason my brain tied it to USL was that we had to find those codes and put them on the game report. One of the more annoying aspects of game reporting but it did help you be accurate (even if I still didn't end up memorizing that 7+7 after all these years...).

 

Now that you mention it, I do remember it as part of USSF's 7+7 document. Wasn't there a separate "pro" version of 7+7 at one time? I have a vague recollection of one that had the codes that broke down each of the reasons.

 

Key to remember the ATR is advice (IMO-good advice), however, not set in stone, keeper coming out of his box isn't a yellow card. Any player running 35 or more yards to come argue a call is definitely dissent and we should caution for this behavior.

 

Be careful of how you describe the ATR. The ATR is more than just advice (just as the I&G is):

Advice to Referees provides U.S. Soccer’s official interpretations of the FIFA Laws of
the Game. All affiliated competitions and registered officials are expected to adhere to
and implement this information to the fullest extent possible.​

And the specific language about GKs, which follows the three Ps, is "A goalkeeper who leaves the penalty area to engage the referee or an assistant referee in debate regarding a decision has committed dissent." That siad, I don't thin the point of the ATR is that leaving the PA to debate a call is always dissent that is worthy of a caution -- the referee retains the ability to detrmine that, dissent though it was, it falls below the caution threshhold. But USSF is making it pretty clear that the thumb is on the "caution" side of the scale, and I think any fair reading makes it pretty clear that blatantly leaving the PA to argue should be cautioned. But then, I don't think we need the ATR to help us figure that out, either . . .

 

At New York high school games, we are required to read a "sportsmanship" card to the players. We use two referees in NY in high school, and I know the players aren't listening so I always let my partner read the card. A few years ago, it was the first game for two junior high teams. My partner read the card, and then proceeded to lecture the teams for ten minutes about soccer. I lost track of what he was saying! I asked why he talked so long, and he said because it was their first game he wanted to make sure hey knew what was going on.

 

We have a card to read in NJ as well. I memorized mine

The first few times I recited it, the teams and coaches applauded when I was finished! (possibly because I try to rattle it off as quickly as possible)