http://mobile.pennlive.com/advpenn/pm_106490/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=ft4ExzUm And all the sunshine and roses in State College just went uh-oh...
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] http://mobile.pennlive.com/advpenn/p...tguid=ft4ExzUm "And all the sunshine and roses in State College just went uh-oh..." That JoePa! He should be fired for having somebody like that on his staff!
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] Wasn't there someone in here touting PSU for being the cleanest team in the country? Tats would be better than a sex scandal..
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] Well one is an NCAA violation, which PSU is clean in--since 1953----in all sports--and that's all anyone has claimed. The other is a crime. If proven. These accusations are disturbing. Don't read the grand jury report unless you have a strong stomach. That being said, we'll see how this shakes out. I remember the lynch mob for Rashard Casey. He was completely exonerated. But folks wanted him suspended. Turned out it was a political thing between the mayor and the chief of police in his home town. These accusations vs Sandusky aren't new (the charges are). I really hope they aren't true. They may be. We don't know yet. It's certainly interesting to see how often these things seem to happen when someone starts a program to help kids, though. As far as the athletic program is concerned, it appears that most of the alleged incidents happened after Sandusky retired. That doesn't make it right. I will say that it's really tough to hide anything in State College. It's a small town and there Penn State isn't the elephant in the room but the elephant in the closet. The "town and gown" relationship has been rocky through the years because Penn State is so dominant in the town's economy and some (many) townfolks do not like it. The sportswriters there are no fans of Paterno due to the fact that he barred them. Penn State being a public university is subject to the same open access to records that got Tressel in trouble. So I have no doubt the truth will come out. If Curley knew then he should go. Same with Spanier (though he was not accused--as it is possible he was not told the details). Paterno did what he was supposed to do and reported what he knew to the correct authorities immediately (which would have saved Tressel, BTW, had he done that). But I know as a fan, its really hard to believe such things about a legend--especially one who raised a family of adopted kids (most of whom played for PSU) and was well regarded. I suspect it was even more so for his friends and former co-workers at the university. I'm withholding judgement until we see how this all shakes out.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] Trying to decide if I should watch Alabama vs LSU or Scarface (on Encore). Not sure which has more corruption and gangsters involved.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] Umm, does that really matter one bit? I don't care if just one of the alleged incidents occurred while he was still employed by PSU - that guy is a sick pervert who could have, and should have, been stopped years ago when one of the current assistant coaches reported him for an incident in the PSU locker room but it sounds like it was silently swept under the rug and made out to not be a big deal. Well the AD and official just stepped down... and to say that because Paterno reported it should just be the end of it in terms of his responsibility, come on, really? He's the head coach and a legend in State College - and this guy was his assistant for how many years? His hands off approach was/is slightly disturbing...
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] So no one reported it to police immediately? Either the witness or Paterno? That seems really sketchy, maybe Paterno encouraged the witness not to?
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] I'm just glad this Penn State scandal was buried until JoePa got the record breaking win.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] I'm witholding judgement on much of this until we know more. Right now all we have is the grand jury report, which is pretty damming--but an indictment is not a guilty verdict. That being said, I'm sick about the whole thing. However, as far as the legal requirements for reporting items of this nature go, most folks are jumping to conclusions. I am far from an expert on the topic, but my wife and I were volunteers this summer at a faith-based conference. The very first topic of discussion, after the welcome, was a 1.5 hour long seminar on dealing with this issue. It was not fun--but neccesary--and manditory for all volunteers (and we weren't even working with the kids there). Some of the rules were surprising. But one of the things we learned that there were specific people in the organization that any such issue should be reported to *and no one else*. This was not for the protection of the organization but for the child involved *and* of the accused (as sometimes they are innocent--but the accusation is enough to ruin a life). The point was to get the issue into the hands of those who are trained to deal with it and to avoid screwing up chains of evidence or false accusations. We do not know if Paterno followed up on it or not. He may not be allowed to say at this time as the case(s) are still pending and under investigation. That's one thing I've learend about in working with my local Block Watch. Folks are not that free to talk about a pending case in which they may be involved as it can really screw things up--and this includes police officers. Our block watch captain and local CPD liason officer was involved in one such case and was unable to talk about it other than very broad details until the perp was sentenced--and that took almost 2 years. As far as him having to know about it because he worked with the person for many years, one of the other things we learned is that it isn't easy to spot and perpetrators are very good at hiding. Hindsight is 20/20. Also, the other person this was reported to *was* the head of the PSU police at the time (though I am not sure if the PSU police are "full" police like they are at OSU--they were not when I was at PSU in the late 1970s). So, until I know more, I won't condemn Paterno in this. I am also curious why none of the other organizations Sandusky worked with noticed or reported anything and why no one from these institutions was accused. There are a lot of unanswered questions. And it gets weirder as one of the (local) DA's involved in the 1998 investigation--which was dropped by that same DA--later mysteriously disappeared and has not been seen alive since. That being said I was relieved to find out that Curley and the other guy have stepped down from their posts. I think Spanier should consider doing the same--because he personally is resonsible as the head guy and this happened on his watch. No different from what I've said about Smith and Gee BTW. I'm sickened by the whole thing. But I don't want to be too cynical either. I still believe it is possible to do things right and win with real students. I think for the most part, we have. But you cannot be a "little pregnant". It only takes on incident like this to leave a permanent balck mark. I have little taste for the game this weekend--I'm only still going because I am meeting family there that I rarely get to see. The one consolation about my parents deaths in August is that they did not have to live to see this. They would be so disappointed. I feel sorry for the current players. Their season is ruined no matter how well they play. I doubt I will attend the OSU game, though I have tickets and I probably will not attend the pregame events planned through our local club (and I think they should be cancelled, actually, and have recommended this). This is not a time for a party of any sort. Sackcloth and ashes maybe (and I'm not even Catholic). A low profile, certainly. Frankly, though it is unfair to the current players, I'd just as soon end the season with the Wisconsin game, and not play in the bowl or the possible championship game. though I doubt the Big 10 would allow that due to the loss of revenue. Personally, the school will get no more of my money until this situation is resolved. And maybe not even then. This is the time to show we really are who we said we were all along. I hope the Board of Trustees realizes that and is bold here.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] One of the two PSU staffers under indictment *was* the head of the PSU police at the time. So it was reported.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] This thing is a total cluster f--- for PSU. It looks like as early as 2000, someone knew this was an issue. Which means future abuses could have probably been prevented had they been reported correctly. Seriously...why did no one call the police? That makes no sense to me at all.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] But no report was filed, correct? Big difference between him finding out because the athletic department involved him vs. someone actually filing a report with the police. As far as your example above about notifying the "correct people", the police are the correct people. The only correct people to notify if there is even the slightest hint of sexual abuse of a child.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] No one called in the police because the accused was a former long term assistant coach at PSU and a close friend of Paterno's who at one time was identified as JoePa's successor. He also used his access and contacts in the PSU program to target and pursue these boys. The squeeky clean image of PSU is going to take a beating over this because everyone will see that they are the same as every other program when it comes to wanting to win games and maintaining their image. I wouldn't be surprised if JoePa retired because this guy was his friend and it happened on his watch. I don't believe the Paterno knew anything more than what has been publicized and it seems like he followed the correct chain of command with the information he did have. But this is still a huge embarrassment to the program. What gets me is the GA who claims to have seen this guy going down on a 10 year old boy in the locker room and didn't do anything about it except tell Paterno what he saw. I mean really, you see a kid getting sodomized by an adult wouldn't you think you would try and stop it? I realize that the guy on his knees is a very well known and powerful person in the program and you are only a GA but wow are you that worried about your career that you let some deviant continue to molest a child? Maybe it's just easy for me to say sitting at a computer and completely detached from it but you would think that it would warrant a "WTF do you think you are doing" comment and an immediate call to security.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] By the rest of your post, it seems this statement is a bit disingenuous. You have no reason to withhold judgement. With who has stepped down and what people involved in the case have said, there is no need. This will tarnish Paterno and his legacy.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] Of course I do. It's called the Constitution. "Innocent until proven guilty". And if you don't really believe that, I hope you never sit on a jury. Anyone who is under investigation/indicted *should* step down, however. That's almost always the case and carries no presumption of innocence or guilt. Witholding judgement however is different from fearing the worst. In this case I do fear the worst based on what we have seen so far. But a lot of people are also jumping to a lot of conclusions that may or may not be justified. I don't want to be one of those either. The Grand Jury report is sickening. But it's also not proof nor is was it a trial--it's just the prosecution's case, to which the grand jury decided there was enough merit to bring to trial. Grand Juries do not convict. There is no defense present. But of course, you are completely correct on your last point. This will tarnish Paterno's legacy--if not destroy it. What I hope to see from the Board of Trustees is announcing an immediate, open, independent investigation into the things Penn State is responsible for here. They are not responsible for it all. But the whole truth needs to come out, whatever it may be.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] This is essentially Day One. This broke over a weekend when the news room isn't packed. The shit hasn't even BEGUN to hit the fan on this one. This isn't going to come out slowly via an ESPN inside investigation, this is going to come out in a courtroom and it is going to be disgusting.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] Question. It took 13 years to file charges. Why so long? Feel like this should have been done a long time ago from the police side of things.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] One factor may be the DA that first looked into this in 1998 (not an incident at PSU, BTW, but something through "Second Mile", the charity involved). He declined to take it to the grand jury, though there was an investigation (including officers hiding in the victim's house). We'll never know why--as he suddenly vanished a few years later (2005, as I recall) and has not been seen alive since. Look up Ray Gricar for more details--it's a really weird case. Unless he's been in Witness Protection all this time.... If all (or even some) of the allegations are true, a lot of people missed this one. And it's not like the court system in State College hasn't gone after football players, for example. There's a pretty contentious relationship between town and gown in State College.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] Sooooo..... A guy with something to say "disappears", the investigation goes on for thirteen years, "alot of people missed this one".... ...but nothing is swept under the rug by the local authorities because it involves Jo Pa? I bet if State College was a city the size of Columbus Jo Pa would not have been able to keep his program as "clean" as you think it is.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] Just the opposite actually. In a small town everybody knows everyone else's business--and no matter how good you are or how powerful, there's going to be someone who hates your guts and is willing to spill the beans. It's a lot easier to hide in a big town like Columbus. Plus, as is well known, most of the PSU press corps hates Paterno and has for some time. There used to be a very cosy arrangement (not uncommon in the old days) where they would all get together with the coaches and have a beer or two and it was all off the record. Some of the press decided that they wanted to publish anyway (it was some of Paterno's comments about other coaches such as Barry Switzer and Jackie Sherril (he later apologized to Swizter but not to Sherril)). After that, and a few other similar incidents, Paterno cut the press off. Some guys have never forgiven him. Don't take my world for it either--just read anything by Ron Bracken for example. There's also a lot of bad blood with the Pittburgh press due to the series with Pitt ending. State College only has one small daily newspaper. Most of the press coverage is from out of town (Philly and Pittsburgh as well as Harrisburg) and is just not beholden to the PSU administration. There is no one like the Wolfe's that run the PA media. The fans by and large love JoePa. The press does not and has not for some time. There's also a lot of friction between the University and the town for many reasons--one of which is the size of Penn State compared with the town and one of which is politics (Penn State tends to be liberal while Centre County does not). Paterno even let a reporter follow his team for 4 years to write a book about college football from a players perspective. See "For the Glory" by Denlinger. It's not a puff piece--and it wasn't all about the start of the team (just the opposite, in fact). Now one place where local authorities might have had a problem *is* lack of resources. It's not a big place. One other I will grant is that because everyone knows everyone, to a certain extent, it's really hard to believe that someone you may know and like is capable of this kind of thing. Human monsters don't always *look* like monsters.
Re: College Football 2011 Thread [R] Just read through the Grand Jury's findings. Sandusky is one sick man and a lot of people messed up on this one. He should have been stopped a long time ago.
