Payne: "New Young Designated Player Program"

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Autogolazo, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    Can't agree with you on this part. As far as facilities are concerned, Euro teams are starting to come here to look at our new stadia and the amenities that they have. Especially the newer parks like KC, Red Bull and Houston.

    Our medical staffs are first class across the board too. As good as any top flight league in Europe and much better than most 2nd and 3rd tier leagues. And definitely better than any of th e4th tier leagues that Boloni's list included.

    Coaching is an area where we lack. But it is also important to remember that MLS just started investing in youth academies in the past few years.
     
  2. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    Because the leagues in the US are independently run, rather than the way it is in virtually every other country, this statement is less true here than it would be for another country.

    I agree that you want there to be a strong second and third tier, but it isn't as critical to the strength and growth of MLS as you seem to think it is.
     
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  3. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    I don't get the "crapped out" ... You seem to have a pretty inflated opinion of current MLS teams' last 10 roster spots. Those last 10 spots are easily interchangeable with any above average USL/NASL player or even an above average 2nd division Scandinavian player. I mean you get what you pay for at a $44,000 salary.

    Again the list is not intended to list 100 players that absolutely should be in MLS. The league couldn't even absorb that many players unless you got rid of every international. The point doesn't have to be more than it is. It's simply a list of US players playing abroad that have proven in the past that they're good enough to make an MLS roster.

    There's plenty of players on that first list that aren't signed at a superior league. Charlie Davies? Carlos Bocanegra? Clarence Goodson? Then you have some that are in the Championship or 2nd div. Germany which is more or less equal to MLS IMO. And then you have guys like Pat Phelan who may not ring any bells, but he did get 80 appearances in MLS before he left.

    Not sure why you have to exclude Mexican American players when the whole point of the conversation is players that MLS misses out on.

    Not so sure about that. I'd sign Eric Lichaj. Brian Span is only 20 and already getting minutes at Djurgarden. Whitecaps just signed Rusin from HB Koge, so why not Shawn Nicklaw? Eugene Starikov would be a safe bet coming from Russian League. Sonny Guadarrama on loan in 2nd div. Mexico would cut it in MLS.

    Anyways the point isn't that all these players should be in MLS. Many of them should be in USL and NASL which brings up the quality of those leagues. And the ones under 22 should be in an MLS youth academy if they're not ready for MLS yet.
     
  4. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    We're talking about guys that MLS is missing out on that can impact the league, yet with this statement, you're saying that these same players that MLS is missing out on are guys that would be interchangeable with the bottom of the roster players that don't make an impact.

    You're not helping your point any.
     
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  5. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    First of all only some yanks abroad would be in those bottom roster spots. Some would be higher. Some wouldn't make the roster at all. The point is having the pool of players here and available. If they don't make the roster today at least they're in the youth academy or at the minor league affiliate ... At an arms reach

    Second of all, the bottom roster players matter plenty IMO. I can note many examples of bottom roster players making a difference last year. Even if they're interchangeable the point is having the biggest pool of players possible to sign from

    The goal should be to be like Mexico. They don't lose any players to 2nd or 3rd tier leagues
     
  6. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    DC is doing almost everything right these days, especially in regards to youth talent. I do envy you guys. Get yourselves a stadium and some more silverware and I think you're back on track.
     
  7. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Yeah we've been hitting home runs in the draft, the academy and recycling other people's rejects. We can't sign an international player for shit. If our internationals weren't always busts, we'd be at the top of the league

    You guys have it figured out finding gems like Nielsen and Collin
     
  8. SourCream&OnionUtd

    Nov 19, 1998
    Well, that's, like...your opinion, man
     
  9. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I love this, but hate the lack of transparency. Stuff like this, and the allocation money, is inscrutable.
     
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  10. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    So look at some of the players MLS signed in the last 3 days

    Brad Rusin - HB Koge (Denmark second division)
    Ryan Miller - Ljungskile (Sweden second division)
    Aaron Wheeler - Fc KooTeePee (Finland second division)

    There probably will be more of these. My club just brought in Diego Restrepo on trial. Yesterday there was an article on MLS website about a number of young Americans south of the border that are being sought. Players like Hoyos, Ocegueda, Garza, Guido etc. who were all on my list.

    These are exactly the type of no name players you claim MLS should just forget about.

    Luckily not all MLS coaches think that way. That kind of thinking would of meant MLS would never have brought back players like Lamar Neagle, Dan Kennedy, Ryan Guy, Lee Nguyen or Cam Weaver just because they're playing at some forgotten league at a club we've never heard of
     
  11. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think you forget about them, but I don't think its a significant loss to MLS when a team loses a player to one of these leagues. Certainly not worth the amount of sturm und drang that people have when they post on BigSoccer about it.
     
  12. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    I don't completely agree, but I understand where you're coming from. MLS's salary cap rules are getting a bit like the US tax code. I think there's a pretty strong business case to be made, though, for pushing teams towards signing younger players, and I think the fact that you can do that in MLS and not in other leagues is actually an advantage that we have.
     
  13. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    I think you're bitching in the wrong forum. MLS has nothing at all to do with the ability of NASL and USL Pro's ability to sign players.
     
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  14. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    I'm not bitching, and I don't view this as a specific one league issue. It's more of a general North American pro soccer issue.

    Look at Garber's recent quotes in regards to strengthening the relationship between the leagues into a stronger and more stable pyramid structure. Pyramid is his word, not mine. I support those efforts.

    My club has nurtured a pretty healthy relationship with a couple of regional minor league clubs. Last year we were able to loan out 3 of our young bottom roster players so they could get experience. If we didn't have that option those players may have been compelled to go to Finland or somewhere to get playing time. Our minor league relationships allow us to retain and develop these players longer so maybe they contribute one day
     
  15. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    Again, its more of a USL/NASL problem.

    You're list is like 80-90 guys that you think should have been kept in the US. Unless MLS expanded their rosters limits to about 40 players per team, it would be impossible for them to retain all of these people.

    MLS does a pretty damn good job of retaining young talent. And don't forget that the youth academies are pretty much brand new. As they become more established, you'll see more guys sticking around.

    You're making a mountain out of a molehill. On your entire list, not counting guys playing in the top 5-6 leagues in the world, you're looking at about 15 players that could make an impact in MLS today.

    That's really not a big loss.
     
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  16. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Agree with this.

    But it is also worth noting that more players will stick around in the MLS domestic environment in part because of that stregnthening pyramid (beyond just the MLS academies), to include MLS's relationships with lower level domestic leagues and the loaning of young players to USL/NASL clubs (so those players can work their way into MLS without hypothetically having to go over to some lower level foreign league).
     
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  17. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couldn't the MLS get the same results just by eating the Transfer fee of acquiring said player?

    Something like any <23 or 21 yo player, approved by league, that team want to sign will only have his actual salary count against the cap and transfer fee will be "eat'n" by MLS for say a 50/50 split if player gets sold.
     
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  18. Jahinho_Guerro

    Apr 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I agree with you 100%, and I have stated this many times in regards to the growth of the game in america.

    The MLS has to much ground to cover in NA, and not enough franchises, which creates hindrances in not having enough pro scouts, pro coaches, pro soccer specific facilities, ect.

    This is where the NASL and USL come in, they cover the mid to smaller markets, find those gems that MLS couldn't discover, give them the opportunity to play D2 or D3 and now they are on the map.

    If you look at the list of the Americans who have played in US before going abroad, and have not had any connection to any of the either MLS, NASL, or USLpro it is pretty bad, IMO.

    Ideally, the USSF needs to have a mandate that all professional teams have an academy system, with this it creates less players slipping through the cracks, and even if a player wants to go abroad, teams still have the options of getting transfer fees or compensations which is evidently lacking in todays soccer society
     
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  19. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    WHY IS THIS POSTED IN AN MLS FORUM?

    Your beef is with the lower divisions. And I suppose you'll be footing the bill for a mandated academy system in NASL and USL Pro. Most of those teams operate on a shoestring budget. Mandating youth academies at some of these clubs will result in insolvency and even less stability at the 2nd and 3rd tier than their already is in this country.

    Its all well and good to play shoulda coulda woulda with imaginary money. But at some point, you have face reality.
     
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  20. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We already had this discussion in this thread. Its not as bad as you make it out to be.
     
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  21. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    It's pretty bad compared to most first class soccer countries. Sure the US is light years ahead of Africa, but pretty far behind Europe, S America and even Asia.

    How many Japanese or Korean players do you know that skip playing in their homelands entirely? Even a second rate country like Romania only has maybe 5 players that started their careers outside the country.

    Right now the US has about 30 players abroad who grew up in the US but have never played a pro game in America in their lives. And there's at least another 30 littered across several academies and reserve leagues abroad who will be the players of the future.
     
  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, exactly, 30 players. Big f-ing deal...
     
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  23. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    The difference between the US and other first class soccer countries are about the same as the difference between the sun and a light bulb.

    1) The US is the size of a continent.
    2) It is one of the most populous countries in the world
    3) It is the 5th most popular professional team sport in this country, and further down the list if you include NASCAR and golf.
    4) Because of the crowded sports marketplace minor league franchises in soccer struggle to survive.

    In conclusion, it is absolutely impossible for US teams to keep everyone here. IMPOSSIBLE. What we are losing is a bunch of kids that will never likely rise above the Serbian 2nd division or the Finnish league.

    NO BIG LOSSES

    The ones that do go abroad and are good enough do one of two things, come back to MLS as more seasoned players ready to contribute or move on to bigger leagues.

    Again. NO BIG LOSS

    Buy a map and then look up the term area in a dictionary or math book.

    Japan is roughly the size of Montana. South Korea is roughly the size of Kentucky. Romania is roughly the size of Indiana.

    Its a shitload easier to blanket an entire country and find players when your country is that small.

    Do you comprehend how ignorant to reality you sound when you say stuff like this?

    And that is a GREAT thing. Because this country is too f*cking big and too f*cking populated for MLS, USL, and NASL to nab everyone. So if another country wants to develop our players for us, awesome.
     
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  24. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Of course, hard luck if you are a fan here and want to see local/American players playing in this league and for your domestic club(s).
     
  25. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    30 + at least another 30 who are currently developing into pros abroad.

    That might not seem like a lot but the typical European, Asian and Latin American country is way below that percentage.

    Like I said before, I'm not saying it's a crisis but to state that we're not missing out on any players is false. If you exclude Africa, we're way above any global average. We're in this special category with other countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand where traditionally pro soccer opportunities were culturally limited because the lack of cultural clout the game had.

    The goal should be to get off the list ASAP and do like every other country on Earth and develop our own
     

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