Pakistan in the news

Discussion in 'International News' started by JBigjake, Sep 16, 2010.

  1. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
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  2. Iaquinta

    Iaquinta Member

    Jan 8, 2007
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    "It is an austere form of Islam that insists on a literal interpretation of the Koran."

    Yikes.
     
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  3. teammellieIRANfan

    Feb 28, 2009
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    Lets not deteriorate the thread people. I made mistake making assumption. Whoever commited it or whatever religion/sect they adhere to they commited a hanous act. It is no different when radical Sunnis commit such murders from when radical Shias do it. I put them in the same camp.

    My condolences to the families, and may the victims rest in peace.
    I hope Pakistan security arrest the perpetrators soon. There must be a collaborated effort on all state actors to put a stop to the sectarian violence across the region.
     
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  4. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
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    What Umar will say.

    Mr. Conspiracy

    To be fair, I think the Brotherhood and Al-Qaeda are more from the Salafi side than the Wahhabi side.
     
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  5. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

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    So true. So true, although I think he has me on ignore now because I keep blowing his pitiful arguments out of the water.
     
  6. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

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    That was my reaction as well. I know Christians who take the Bible literally too, and I can't help but be amazed at the limited intelligence of these people.
     
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  7. Iaquinta

    Iaquinta Member

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    I don't know how any serious thinking person can take poorly written 'holy books' seriously.
     
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  8. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    Salafi and Wahhabi are different names for the same thing, dumbass. And the Brotherhood are neither, nor are they linked to al-Qaeda, given that bin Laden accused them of betrayal of principles such as Jihad. Like I said, you know shit about the topic.
     
  9. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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    There are Millions of crazy fucks like that, Umar being just one of them.


    They are actually not, oh enlighten one, they are similar to each other no doubt (offspring), but not the same thing.

    They are both crazy fucking sects I give you that.

    BTW Osama did pick fights with everyone at the end that is for sure.
     
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  10. teammellieIRANfan

    Feb 28, 2009
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    This is getting a bit out of hand. The thread (as it relates to recent events and developments in Pakistan) is about the bombing and tragic death of 80 people. I think we ought focus on that instead of having a pissing contest. You may have disagreements with Umar on different subjects, but he is most certainly not a fanatical "crazy fuck". I dont understand the reason for ganging up on him and insulting him left and right, over a relatively irrelevant detail. Pretty uncalled for.
    Lets get back on topic
     
  11. Iaquinta

    Iaquinta Member

    Jan 8, 2007
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    I wasn't insulting Umar.
     
  12. teammellieIRANfan

    Feb 28, 2009
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    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2013/02/201321813486399438.html


    I find this quote in the article a little troubling:
    "Police said they were in talks to end the protest. However, Qayyum Changezi, a local Shia party leader, said they "will not bury the dead until a targeted operation is launched".

    I fear, if the Pakistani security and intelligence community do not step up to the plate and arrest the responsible, that there could potentially be retaliatory strike against Sunni innocents by Shia radicals. Which would be very catastrophic and further escalate tension and increase sectarian strife. Lets hope it does not come to that
     
  13. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    They actually are. They are all Salafis - none of those people would refer to himself as a Wahhabi, that's just a term given to them to try and demean them. It's like calling Muslims Mohammedans. Different name for the same thing, one is accepted by the group it refers to, the other isn't.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi#Naming_controversy:_Wahhabism_and_Salafism

    Let me be frank with you all - this includes the people whose posts I cannot see. I am more qualified than all of you to speak on Islamic theology and on the differences between ideological groupings within the Islamic community. I'm friends with more Salafis, Deobandis and Sufis than all of you, I'm friends with more Shias than the majority of you (our Persian posters will have more Shia friends than me, the rest of you won't) and I've spoken and studied under more scholars from these groups than all of you. So when you argue that something is a certain way in Islam, when it isn't, that's fine because you are only making yourself seem ignorant. I'm not in the business of taking lessons on Islam from people who haven't the foggiest clue about any of the basic principles of Islam and Islamic movements.

    TeamMellieIranFan has it right - there was a terrible tragedy inadvertently pinned onto Wahhabis, one person realised his error and rectified it and there were no issues, the other is too dumb to concede the point and wishes to double down on the error and is making himself look stupid in the process.
     
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  14. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    Another community did this before as well - the bodies were left out to rot for days until they finally buried them. I can't remember the exact circumstances.

    It's haram to do that, the dead have the right to be buried asap. And how can you finish an investigation within two days? They should instead follow through with their threat to march to the capital in their thousands unless the perpetrators and planners are identified and hanged.
     
  15. Iaquinta

    Iaquinta Member

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    Wow, an argument from authority. Impressive.
     
  16. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

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    Well TBH umar brings it upon himself with his attitude and posting style. I think he forgets sometimes that this isn't WR. His double standards for conduct by those he supports v those he opposes is just one of many issues I have with him. And I have consistently called him out using facts that is why he now has me on ignore.
     
  17. Umar

    Umar Member+

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    Yep, backed up by an actual argument prior to that. You think I don't know more about Islam than you, or Ceezmad? Really?

    Let's get back to the crux of the matter. Did wahhabis commit the act referred to? If not, why hasn't there been a retraction or clarification from ceezmad? I'm perfectly entitled to tell him he's wrong, and explain that my understanding of the topic is far more comprehensive than his sketchy reading from globaljihad.com etc.
     
  18. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

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    Yes he clearly is a high ranking imam with all knowledge and understanding of Islam Anyone saying otherwise is just an undercover Israeli out to spread propaganda.
     
  19. teammellieIRANfan

    Feb 28, 2009
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    Perspolis
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    Yes, the Pakistani authoroties should be given time to fully conduct an investigation. In the end it must yield results and result in the arrest of the planners and perpetrators. Otherwise I could see more instability down the road. Lets hope for the best.
     
  20. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

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    But do you think they will really do anything? The whole nation is teetereing on the brink right now. They have pressure mounting from external sources, the US, and from internal divides. The best solution for them short term may very well be a strong man who can clamp down on everything and get it sorted and then loosen control.
     
  21. teammellieIRANfan

    Feb 28, 2009
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    The problem with that is that some people dont easily give up control.
    I really hope the Pakistani security and intelligence community do their job. Will they manage to bring the responsible to justice? I dont know. But right now its way too early to judge.
     
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  22. Iaquinta

    Iaquinta Member

    Jan 8, 2007
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    This Reza Azlan style of debate is so nauseating and you do it all the time. You didn't even grow up in the Middle East. The rest of your post was a bunch of anecdotes about knowing more Muslims. :rolleyes:

    I would never use pathetic anecdotes to start an argument, but since you did and we are on the subject let me say that I live in a state with one of the largest Arab-Muslim populations outside of the Middle East. My fiance is from Iraq and her family have told me plenty of times how wonderful life was under Islamic rule. All of my Iranian friends (ones that actually grew up in Iran) have nothing but contempt for the religious establishment there. See how anecdotes work? Mine contradict yours!

    I don't care what you think the Qur'an says. You can do all of the mental gymnastics you want to try and justify what is says and means (metaphors context, w/e). It's another poorly written, mediocre text that is subject to interpretation. It can mean anything people want it to.
     
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  23. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
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    That is very true. People don't like to give up power once they have it. But really for Pakistan I don't see any other way forward for them at this time. The internal issues have already divided the nation and they are worsening as time goes on.

    As for bringing those responsible to justice? I have little faith that they will actually do so. I expect they will conjure up a fall guy or group and call it a day.
     
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  24. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    And where exactly have we mentioned anything about Quranic interpretation? When has that even been a subject during this conversation? We were talking about whether Wahabis had anything to do with the attack by the LeJ. Tafsir has nothing to do with any of this.

    I don't need to do mental gymnastics during a conversation, you on the other hand appear to have an Olympic Gold already.
     
  25. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
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    And PBS.

    But what ever link I can post to show the amount of Money the Wahhabis have spent in Pakistan (a lot in good things for sure) but a lot in spreading their fanatical type of Islam you would not like or just ignore, every time I show how dumb you can be you just ignore the facts.

    Did the Wahabbis carry out the attack, who knows, the organization that did broke away from another organization that had support from the wahabbis (even if you disagree). That obviously does not mean that the new organization has direct links to wahabbism (what ever it would be called).

    But Some in Pakistan do blame part of the violence on the Wahabbis and their hate for Shiite Muslims (and the USA for supporting them against the soviets). So their thinking is that we (USA) armed them and trained them and now they are using that training to attack the Shiite (and others) that they do not like (and they get their funding now from Saudi Arabia).

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/01/13/283371/pakistan-shia-killing-uswahhabi-legacy/

    http://pakshia.com/en/shia-killing-...ow-tries-to-sweep-pakistan-analyst-raza-rumi/

    http://www.usip.org/publications/rising-religious-sectarian-violence-in-pakistan

    http://jafrianews.com/2012/10/21/4-...bomb-blast-firing-on-the-way-to-karbala-iraq/

    And yes, secular people usually know more about religion (in general) than religious people because they are blinded by their own superstition (not about the religious details for sure) But for sure an atheist former Muslim would definitely know more than me and Umar about Islam and Umar would know more about Islam than me for sure.
     
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