P/I/P: #4 - L.A. Galaxy vs. Sporting Kansas City; 4/7/12, 1:00 P.M. PT

Discussion in 'LA Galaxy' started by Hachiko, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. Pegasus503

    Pegasus503 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 7, 2008
    San Diego
    I beg to differ..

    MLS Chalkboard is powered by the Opta data analysis product

    http://www.optasports.com/sports/football.html

    they have a definitions section

    http://www.optasports.com/about/news/feature-opta's-football-action-definitions.html

    Passes
    An intentional played ball from one player to another.



    Tackles
    A tackle is defined as where a player connects with the ball in ground challenge where he successfully takes the ball away from the man in possession.
    A Tackle Won is deemed to be where the tackler or one of his team-mates regains possession as a result of the challenge, or that the ball goes out of play and is “safe”.
    A Tackle Lost is where a tackle is made but the ball goes to an opposition player.

    Clearly an unsuccessful pass and a tackle lost are recorded as two seperate statistics. The "lost tackle" being very specific in definition

    Are you trying to say Sean gave away 20 bad passes, but had zero lost tackles in the entire 90 minutes...nobody disposessed him?

    or go back and watch the replay... there's no way in 90 minutes that the entire back 4 players only lost 6 tackles collectively.

    I know we don't want to believe Sean is struggling as bad...but the truth is he is
     
  2. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, it makes more sense than the converse, that he was tackled 20 times in the match.

    GalaxyKoa's post would explain why Josh Saunders is recorded to have 20 "tackles/lost possessions" as well.
     
  3. GalaxyKoa

    GalaxyKoa Member+

    Jul 18, 2007
    North County
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Getting tackled and playing an unsuccessful pass are recorded as separate events, but they are combined for the sake of demonstrating the number of giveaways a player has.

    Also, there is a difference between a tackle won/lost (which indicates a player attempted to take the ball from someone) and being tackled (which indicates a player had the ball taken from him). Tackles won/lost can be found under "Defensive".

    Go back and look at the chalkboard.

    [​IMG]

    You can add events to the pitch by clicking the tick boxes on the right. As you can see, there are two boxes ticked, "Unsuccessful Passes" and "Tackled and Possession Lost". You'll notice there are twenty of each, so if indeed they were separate events, there would be 40 events on the field. There are only 20 events on the field. You can toggle either box and find that the 20 events in each group overlap.

    If you do the same with, say, DeLaGarza, you'll see he has 8 "Unsuccessful Passes" and 10 "Tackled and Possession Lost". If you toggle the "Tackled and Possession Lost" tick box, you'll see two distinct events appear and disappear. Those are the two times he was tackled on the ball.

    Of course, the most simple evidence, as MPNumber 9 pointed out, is that there is no way that Saunders was tackled 20 times.

    Another piece of simple evidence is that not a single player has more "Unsuccessful Passes" than "Tackled and Possession Lost".

    Similarly, having them be completely seperate would mean that Franklin would have unsuccessfully attempted to dribble someone 20 times in one game. That's once every 4.5 minutes. If he was failing that much at attempting to dribble people, we'd all be MUCH more upset at him.
     
  4. dashiel

    dashiel Member+

    Jul 15, 2000
    orange county
    1996 D.C. United started 1-1-3. Past performance and a much different league, but he’s got history.
     
  5. Pegasus503

    Pegasus503 BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 7, 2008
    San Diego
    Twain quoting Disraeli "Lies, Damned lies... and statistics" :D
     
  6. TrickHog

    TrickHog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heck, how about the 1-1-9 start in '09 with this club?
     
  7. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Or, as I mentioned earlier, KC's even worse 1-7-4 start last season which culminated in them earning 51 pts to lead their conference at regular season end. Of course they had all road games to start out but still it shows fortunes can change drastically over the course of the almost 8 month long regular season.

    So who knows what LAG, NYRB's, SKC, Chivas or our final regular season opponent Seattle will look like on Oct 28 when our regular season ends? Injuries, luck, summer acquisitions/player losses, and good or bad coaching between now and then will all play a part and all are somewhat unpredictable. The only thing we know for sure is that Toronto fans will end up disappointed yet again.
     
  8. diagoro

    diagoro Member

    Sep 4, 2009
    Orange County
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ......and a note to the league (or teams, or whomever is responsible). Please don't allow teams to wear light colors when at home (KC). It was easy to tell apart when the video was close in, but the crappy (barely hd....if that) made it near impossible........
     
  9. aletheist

    aletheist Member+

    Nov 17, 2010
    Olathe, Kansas, USA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You do realize that the Galaxy wear WHITE for all of their home games, right? Light blue is SKC's primary uniform color. As the visiting team, LA should have been wearing dark blue for greater contrast, like they did when they came to LSP last year.
     
  10. JukeBox

    JukeBox Member

    Apr 14, 2008
    South East Asia
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Unfortunately...you are CORRECT!! I was surprised to see we didn't wear the away jersey/dark jersey to play against SKC.
     
  11. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a fascinating article by MLS.com:

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/04/10/central-winger-new-way-visualizing-beautiful-game

    Shows:
    1) Juninho and Stephens just didn't pass forward much - lots of lateral and backward movement - compare them to SKC's central midfield. This is where we miss David Beckham.
    2) Robbie and Landon were trying to be our playmakers - they were the ones moving all over the pitch. Expected.
    3) We sat in the center of the pitch, we were very very close to one another (defense, defense, defense) - clogging up the middle of the pitch. Unfortunately, that meant we got burned on the flanks.
    4) We didn't get enough width out of the midfield as a result.
    5) Todd Dunivant added to the attack more than Sean (we already knew that).
    6) SKC POUNDED our right side all 90 minutes long - successfully making LD play defense, and attacking the weak link that is Sean Franklin right now. This scares me, because unless Sean gets better, this is how you take LA out of the game.
    7) Edson Buddle and Robbie Keane right on top of one another making the same runs. Not good.

    Wow. Eye opening.
     
  12. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    All good points.

    And if I'm reading these graphs right you can also see how little defense Magee played since his average spot was higher than any other player on our team, and his small circle indicates his overall "positional deviation" (i.e., how much of the field he covered) was the least of any player except our centerbacks and and Saunders.

    The lack of connection between the fullbacks as well - guess it was the hoofing the ball upfield phenomenon. But to be fair to the defense I'm not sure we could have passed out of the back, given the pressure KC was putting on us, the ball handling abilities of Juninho (currently) and Stephens and the fact that Magee wasn't coming back to receive the ball.

    There was another good article on that game and SKC in particular based on Opta Stats: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/04/09/opta-spotlight-numbers-behind-sporting-kcs-pressure
     
  13. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Based on that it might be good to put Stephens on the left for Magee to give us some defensive balance, and bring Beckham or Sarvas into the middle. Until our defense is sorted out, Magee's not the best guy to have over there.
     
  14. LA_YANK_10

    LA_YANK_10 Member+

    Nov 25, 2009
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm surprised to learn that you're surprised to learn that Stephens does anything but play square balls and passes backwards. He only YELLS at other people to send the ball down field...
     
  15. juniorLA

    juniorLA Member

    Mar 4, 2008
    El Lay
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been reluctant to post, mostly out of depression. I've been waiting for positives to surface.

    Saunders seems to be doing better each week.

    Our back line was somewhat more sound, but nothing that inspires too much confidence. Meyer maybe looked ok at times but was extremely lucky to get away with the amount of physicality on Sapong. I think in most situations he's going to get carded or tossed. AJ muscled off the ball. Duni had a somewhat better game. Franklin, absolutely atrocious again. As I said, the kid has been absolute rubbish this year and needs to find the bench until he can sort it out.

    Midfield. Ugh. There's not a good thing to be said. Stephens, I watched him intently and it seems like 95% of what he does is pursue players with the ball, and that generally did not result in tackles although the pressure did occasionally force a premature pass. I was really disappointed that he couldn't even seem to bust up plays. The other 5% of his time is spent passing backwards or occasionally to the side or kicking the ball to no one in particular. I really think that we lost the game in central midfield. I know that we were sitting deep at CM, but even for that we were quite poor. Those two did very little of any benefit on either side of the ball, and really weren't even very effective in showing for the ball. As Magee said, we could rarely connect more than a couple passes, and IMHO the CMs were largely responsible for this. There was no linking, no outlets, even though we were getting killed on the wings. Also adding to this were the long balls to no one. We missed Beckham. What puzzled me was that we couldn't seem to weight even our short passes correctly.

    Forwards...Buddle, what the heck? Where are you, buddy? You had a couple nice moments, but it seems all your confidence is gone and your feet have gone to stone. And I have to admit this--Buddle and Keane don't work well together, at least yet. Keane, tireless worker completely starved of service or support. I feel bad for him.

    We lose Omar and we pick up Buddle and now we can't do anything right, in defense or attack? It is befuddling.

    That is all.
     
  16. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fantastic point about Magee - his average position is HIGHER than the forwards!!!!! He just doesn't track back. Which means more pressure on Todd Dunivant (who in hindsight knowing that, had a decent game).

    So essentially he is out of position a crap ton of the time.

    ARGH. So much work to do, so little time.

    Also - if I read anything about Robbie Keane/Landon Donovan being "anonymous" or "lethargic" or "not themselves" about this game, I want to whip out this chart and show them the issues we have. They weren't anonymous, they were playing DEFENSE first and trying their hardest to move around the pitch looking for anyone, someone, BUELLER!, to make an off the ball run. Whoever that journalist is (cough World Soccer Reader/ESPN cough) clearly did not do their homework (opposed to SI, MLS.com and Shin Guardian - all of whom correctly pointed out our midfield problems, in particular Juninho).
     
  17. 73Bruin

    73Bruin Member+

    Jul 12, 2008
    Torrance, California
    I don't think your takes on this is very accurate with regard to Stephens

    Look at the passing chart for the Kansas City game that has been linked several times in this thread. The vast majority of Stephens passes are forward or advancing linking (not square). All of his unsuccessful passes were forward.

    By comparison less than half of Juninho's passes are forward or advancing linking. Juninho was also much less involved distributing the ball in that he had only 2/3's of the touches that Stephens had.
     
  18. Jack-UK

    Jack-UK Member

    May 11, 2009
    Corona, California
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Looks like we're split on this one. But I will say this, you cannot simply look at 'stats'... You have to really sit and watch the game(s).

    It's not simply about making a pass that travels in the direction away from your goalmouth that might suffice a metric! Stephens offers next to nothing in the scope of insightful, skillfull, defense-splitting passes which is precisely what a midfielder should be able to do!
    Now, before anyone says he's a defensive midfielder, I don't give a shit! So was Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Paul Parker... and the list goes on!
    His passes that are lateral or backward when unmarked or unpressed by the opposition are inexcusable! And I put that squarely on the coaching!!

    To defend Stephens, I would say that he's young, eager, good touch on the ball and controls it well... but he needs to be an attacker when going forward... and currently, he simply is not!

    JACK-UK
     
  19. 73Bruin

    73Bruin Member+

    Jul 12, 2008
    Torrance, California
    I think Stephens is an attacker, certainly more so then the Juninho that has shown up this year as evidenced by this game.

    However, I don't believe he is as effective an attacker as he needs to be. IMO, his accuracy on attacking passes and judgement/ability to anticipate who will actually get to a pass needs to be improved. I thought Stephens played well two years ago when Becks was out. IMO his game has regressed in some respect as it seems when Becks in in the game, the other midfielders tend to defer to much to him for distribution, rather than making the plays that are in front of them.
     
  20. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not quite - it's the thickness of the lines that represent the majority of his passes, not the number that appear ("the thickness of the line being proportional to the number of passes exchanged between them"). Based on that, the vast majority of his passes were to Todd Dunivant and I can't tell - either Juninho or Sean Franklin (can't tell if the line is running through or ending with Juni). Lateral passes and backpassing.

    After that his passes are mostly to Magee. I thought it was LD, but that's actually LD's line running to Dunivant.

    So Stephens passed mostly to: Todd Dunivant and Juninho/Franklin.

    Stephens is not a creative attacking midfielder. He just isn't. And Juninho's job isn't to be a creative attacking midfielder, his primary job is to be a dmid.
     
  21. 73Bruin

    73Bruin Member+

    Jul 12, 2008
    Torrance, California
    If you look at the actual game chart - http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2012-04-07-kc-v-la/chalkboard - you will see that the summary chart isn't necessary accurate. The best way too see this is to click on the distribution box and then remove everything except successful passes. It bears very little resemblence to the summary chart.
     
  22. juniorLA

    juniorLA Member

    Mar 4, 2008
    El Lay
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First of all, I go with what I saw before anything else. Second, looking at the chalkboard, that's a stretch to say that "the vast majority" of his passes are forward and not square or backward, as it looks like more than half, maybe 2/3 are roughly square or backwards. Moreover, of his forward passes, how many appear to be linking (i.e. less than 10 yards)? Any? One? Did any of his long, forward(ish) passes put the receiving player in good position?

    Saying that Juninho was worse doesn't mean that Stephens was good. They were both very poor. Very, very poor.

    THIS!

    I would say, though, that he needs to (1) show for the ball, (2) when passing the ball try not to put the receiver in such a bad situation where he'll be almost instantly dispossessed (he's famous for hospital balls), (3) support the play, (4) don't give the ball away cheaply, (5) when defending try clogging a passing lane from time to time and quit thinking that your sole job is to chase, and (6) play simply!
     
  23. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this the first season they've had the MatchCenter stats? This is an amazing feature and I'm blown away they have an analysis for every, single game (even in outside competitions). Does any other league have something like this?
     
  24. 73Bruin

    73Bruin Member+

    Jul 12, 2008
    Torrance, California
    I don't know what you consider square. But I looked at his succesful passes. Of the 24, 9 were forward and over 10 yards forward; 2 more were somewhat forward (less than 5 yards). Of his unsucessful passes all 9 were forward and all but 2 of them were more than 10 yards forward. To me 20 of 33 passes is the vast majority. By subtraction just over 1/3 of his passes were square or backwards.

    Somewhat agree. I would have rated Stephens a 4 (below average). I would have rated Juninho at a 3.

    Don't disagree but found it interesting that per the stats, Stephens led the team in tackles won (with 4).
     
  25. juniorLA

    juniorLA Member

    Mar 4, 2008
    El Lay
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm looking at just his successful passes, as well, and I'm only seeing 8 that are forward passes with another 3 that are essentially square but have some forward progress, so I'd count those, too. I don't count unsuccessful passes, as there is no reason to give credit for bad balls.
     

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