P/I/P: #05 - LA Galaxy @ Vancouver Whitecaps; 04/19/14; 4:00pm PDT

Discussion in 'LA Galaxy' started by Geneva, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. phoenixhazard

    phoenixhazard Member+

    Oct 26, 2010
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So why does LA have to pay for it by ourselves? We turned MLS around by ourselves by signing Beckham, and now you are saying we are doing the same by giving Omar a DP contract. So why is the burden on us alone and other teams can profit from it?

    Perhaps what is needed is a "MLS made DP" slot, two or few of them? Given to guys like Omar or Zusi or Besler that have made it in MLS and can move overseas for the paycheck but we keep them on a different hit to the cap? That will surely spawn every club to try to find the next big thing internally so they are cheap and would give us the ability to keep them without hurting our budget so we can keep going for those high impact players to come and make an instant impact.
     
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  2. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How is it not working well? It was our attacking DPs that failed to score a single goal in the playoffs last year. Maybe if we had a 3rd attacking DP we'd have been in better shape, but we'd also have been in better shape if we had Magee or Ishizaki last November. It hardly seems obvious that "wasting" a DP slot on Omar keeps us from being a better team or that a past-his-prime injury-prone superstar like Kaka' wouldn't have also been injured during the playoffs.

    Otherwise, I was pretty clear in my original post. Chivas was not a serious threat to the Galaxy on-field or off, but it doesn't mean the re-branded team won't be.
     
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  3. dashiel

    dashiel Member+

    Jul 15, 2000
    orange county
    That’s the cross most pioneers must bear. Personally I’d rather lead and take my lumps than follow.
     
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  4. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not saying the Galaxy has to take one for the team to send some kind of message to MLS or start a trend. I don't think that's what's happened. I'm saying it makes sense to balance the DP strategy between aging superstars and younger/lesser-known guys that perform at this level. We should be looking for another Mauro Diaz or Fagundez, not Kaka' necessarily.
     
  5. phoenixhazard

    phoenixhazard Member+

    Oct 26, 2010
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yes but with only 3 DP slots and the fact we have the financial power to utilize all 3 on world class players, we can't afford to do that. That's why I keep screaming for additional DP slots and a loosening of the cap so teams can afford to do both.
     
  6. Benny Dargle

    Benny Dargle Member+

    Jul 23, 2008
    LA
    Actually, I think we did use MLS resources to sign Omar, just like Sporting KC did with Besler and Zusi. The used allocation money from the League's "retention fund" to buy down the cost of the deal. Not sure whether the DP salary made that moot from a cap perspective, but the impression I got was that we didn't take the full hit the deal would have otherwise made.
     
  7. phoenixhazard

    phoenixhazard Member+

    Oct 26, 2010
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah but we still lost a DP slot

    what if Ronaldo came out today and said I'm thru with Madrid and want to play in LA, we are stuck and couldn't sign him. I know this is incredibly unlikely but their are a host of other realistic DP candidates that we might not be able to do anything about come the end of the world cup if Omar doesn't dazzle and stays in MLS (which is VERY likely)
     
  8. Benny Dargle

    Benny Dargle Member+

    Jul 23, 2008
    LA
    I have always been of the view that the lack of transparency from MLS is because it is still a single entity and it will change the rules on the fly to take advantage of new opportunities that benefit all owner-operators/investors. If something extraordinary comes along, then I fully expect MLS to find some way to make it happen, probably by creating some kind of young national team player exception, which not only would allow Omar to avoid taking up the slot, but would also allow the league to compete to retain popular USMNT players who will get sniffs abroad if the US does well this summer.
     
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  9. The Beautiful Gamer

    The Beautiful Gamer BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 26, 2008
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It didn't need to be LA Galaxy to start the change that spurred this league to grow, but because of the fact that we are the probably the most powerful team in the league and set the gold standard from the start why shouldn't we continue to lead the way? Now the league can create new or tweek current DP rules to help perpetuate growth of the league, but in the meantime if the team makes a move that ends up changing the league overall for the better, then I say more power to the move.
     
  10. phoenixhazard

    phoenixhazard Member+

    Oct 26, 2010
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well i used an extreme example of Ronaldo but what if it was someone of a smaller pedigree. Hell even Lampard would fit the bill. Does Lampard cause MLS to make a 4th DP slot? I don't know. He would certainly help us on the pitch greatly though.
     
  11. jmaestro

    jmaestro Member+

    Mar 27, 2008
    Bakersfield
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I absolutely think that trading Beckham in midfield for Omar in defense affected our ability to score goals. We were super-dependent on Keane/Donovan, and if they were off or got effectively shut down, we were done. And the defense was not good enough to compensate.

    There are a few of us that feel we need an upgrade in center midfield (attacking) to be a really effective scoring team. We can't do that without a DP slot, and there you go---now we work with wing options like moving Ishizaki or Donovan into the center, or living with Juninho and Sarvas struggling to unlock defenses.

    Since we lost Beckham and didn't replace him we have: (1) not won anything, (2) had our earliest playoff exit in a few years, (3) not only been dumped out of the CCL but didn't qualify last year. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it hasn't gone that great.

    And in the meantime, the defense struggles. It sure looks to me like we put our money (DP spot) in the wrong place.
     
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  12. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should.

    That the Galaxy should use all of its DP slots on aging foreign superstars is not a foregone conclusion. If anything, it's really limiting from a personnel-building stand point.
     
  13. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Say what you will about Omar's flaws - I'm still not so sure you guys would be thrilled with an LA defense without him. Since Bruce has been here have we ever been good defensively without Omar? I'm not sure but I do remember at least one long period where we were an absolute sieve until Omar came back.

    Also while its way too early in this season to draw any significant conclusions about our defense the early indicators are not as dire as you would think reading this forum. In fact they are pretty decent. We've allowed 4 goals in 5 MLS games giving us a 0.8 goal/gm* which is better than any team in the league put up for 2013. Of course some nice saves from Penedo have contributed to that low number. But it isn't just Penedo doing well - the 3.6 shots on goal that we allow per game is the 4th lowest in the league. Only KC (2.7), Col (3.0), and DC(!, 3.5) give up fewer SOG. In fact other than the disastrous CCL game our defense has been pretty decent even if it doesn't feel that way when we are emotionally wrapped in watching the game.

    So be careful about taking Omar for granted. He's anchored one of the best defenses in the league for some time now.

    * 0.6 g/gm if Leo doesn't have a brain fart in the last game. Sorry, couldn't resist.
     
  14. phoenixhazard

    phoenixhazard Member+

    Oct 26, 2010
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The goals we have given up have mostly been soft and pathetic. If we weren't giving up those goals we would probably have max points at this stage.
    Sure Omar isn't as bad as we are complaining but he isn't nearly as good as he should be and nearly as good as his DP status says he should be as well. Not saying we would be any better without him but I am saying that if he can't get back the drive and determination that made him what he was I'd rather just cut bait and move on, at a DP contract the expectations rose and he has not met them. Honestly I think we could be just as good with Meyer+Opare after they got settled in.
     
  15. jmaestro

    jmaestro Member+

    Mar 27, 2008
    Bakersfield
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bradley is not an aging superstar, and I sure don't think Keane fits into that. Even Beckham, aged as he was, produced on the field. You make it sound like we've been trying to get Zidane and Ronaldo to come out of retirement.
     
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  16. jmaestro

    jmaestro Member+

    Mar 27, 2008
    Bakersfield
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the thing: I do know that we would miss Omar. He is a good defender who has been up and down, but overall, a good defender. But that isn't the point. A lot of MLS teams would miss their best defender if they lost them, and none of them are on DP contracts. It's a matter of replaceability. (If that is even a word.) You can replace 95% Omar with his level of play since his DP contract without going the DP route. You can't get a #10 who will boss the field without the DP route. That's always been the problem.
     
  17. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I agree that the 4 goals that we've given up have mostly been due to some glaring mistakes. I also agree that the players should be called out for those errors.

    My point is that we should remember that a lot goes on between those mistakes. We know that every defense in the league is trying to reduce the # of goals allowed per game. Every coach and team devotes hundreds of hours and weeks and weeks of practice to learn how to do this. So how is it that despite the goals we've given up because of glaring mistakes LA has still allowed fewer goals per game than any other team except KC?

    It's not because we've played a weak schedule - we haven't. It's not because we have LAG on the jersey - the name doesn't keep the ball out of the net. At some point you have to realize that for some reason our defense is pretty damn good overall and must be doing a lot right.

    So what is the reason for our defense is outperforming our competition despite the errors? Is it Gargan? Is it AJ? Leo? For different reasons too long to go into I'm guessing none of these 3 players have been the key to our defensive success. And our defense has been pretty good for long stretches without each of these players.

    But one player I don't think we've been that successful without is Omar. And in particular its what his size, height, and physicality bring to the position. He may not look like he is playing great but you replace him with an average athlete and I think you will find out pretty quickly how much he has been worth to our team.

    None of this is to argue that he shouldn't play harder or better or that we should or shouldn't have used a DP slot on him. Thats a complex argument. I'm just saying that he's a bit similar to LeBron - he can have a subpar game and still do more to help the team than an average athlete can do having a great game. For the most part he protects the box from marauders and does a very good job of it, the occasional error notwithstanding.
     
  18. jmaestro

    jmaestro Member+

    Mar 27, 2008
    Bakersfield
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And you are right about that, and it is something to keep in mind.

    I disagree about the schedule though---RSL is going through a coaching change, Vancouver ain't all that, and Chivas still isn't that great. Give us 10 more games and we'll know where the defense really is, which is a point I think you and a few others already made.
     
  19. The Cadaver

    The Cadaver It's very quiet here.

    Oct 24, 2000
    La Cañada, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As they say, if you are not the lead dog, the view is always the same.
     
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  20. The Beautiful Gamer

    The Beautiful Gamer BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 26, 2008
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ^^I Second This!!
     
  21. jmaestro

    jmaestro Member+

    Mar 27, 2008
    Bakersfield
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Leading is great, if you're headed the right direction. If you choose the wrong direction and hit a dead end, you're the last one to get turned around. I don't care about being "cutting edge" and "leading MLS!" if it's not in a direction that is smart and helps the club.
     
  22. dashiel

    dashiel Member+

    Jul 15, 2000
    orange county
    I’d have to say AEG is batting close to a thousand though. Looking back our ownership group were at or near the apex of:
    • Soccer specific stadium (2003)
    • Bringing home top American talent (2005)
    • Designated players (2006)
    • Homegrown players (2008)
    • Academy programs (200?)
    • USL team (2014)
     
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  23. jmaestro

    jmaestro Member+

    Mar 27, 2008
    Bakersfield
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not arguing that. Just arguing (ad naseum, apparently =) ) that so far, the Omar DP deal has been a bust. Poor performance, inability to upgrade central midfield, haven't won anything, and for all that, the defense still looks shaky. I don't like the "we need to lead!" thing just to do something new. The deal has to stand up on its own. We also did the Rogers/Magee trade in the same time frame, so it's kinda hard to argue that the new regime is hitting on all cylinders and can't make a bad call.
     
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  24. napper

    napper Member+

    Jan 14, 2014
    Fullerton
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Omar Rules!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    P.S. I sure did miss Omar when he was recovering from Timmy Chandler’s love tap in Nürnberg.

    P.P.S. I also blame Robbie for not finishing at home against RSL in last year’s playoffs.
     
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  25. The Beautiful Gamer

    The Beautiful Gamer BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 26, 2008
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A bust?? A BUST!?! Umm he hasn't even been a DP for a FULL YEAR YET. How the hell does that equal bust already? You sir are jumping the gun.
     
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