*OUR* best 11?

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Union' started by local136RiverRat, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. mattylip

    mattylip Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    Jul 22, 2011
    Cherry Hill (127, D)
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's what we'll see except I would expect Le Toux on the left and McInerney on the right. See: http://americansoccernow.com/questionnaires/jack-mcinerney ("WHAT IS ONE SOCCER SKILL YOU WANT TO IMPROVE?
    Anything with my left foot. I neglected it as a kid and it could help me a lot in today's game."
     
  2. aztec21bas

    aztec21bas BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 24, 2009
    Mullica Hill, NJ
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He just stole that qoute from Justin Mapp. Original quote from Mapp to the same question above... "Anything with my right foot, because I do not have one."
     
  3. ImissTHEheat

    ImissTHEheat Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this might be our strongest look for the best 11 players on the roster counting Adu as out the door. It makes me question who else on the roster can play target for Casey or who is next on the depth chart behind Farfan though...Torres? Keon? Okai?
     
  4. ImissTHEheat

    ImissTHEheat Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Based on Hack's comments in the final whistle yesterday and today in the press conference, with the U in a 4-3-3, here's what I expect:


    McInerney----Casey-----Le Toux
    -------------------------------------
    ------Okugo---------Marfan-----
    --------------Carroll---------------
    ------------------------------------
    Garfan--Parke--Soumare-Williams
    ------------MacMath--------------

    Garfan is our starting LB (Hack press conference 1/21)
    Trying to get Mac, Casey, and Seba on the field together (previously)
    Sees Okugo playing more in the midfield (Hack press conference 1/21)
    Carroll the captain (1/21)
    Hoppenot, Cruz, and Hoffman "getting in there too", meaning subbing in up front (final whistle 1/20)

    I would anticipate that this dependent on Soumare showing he can hold down that spot as he returns to form. If not, I would expect he moves back to CB and you get maybe Torres, Lahoud, Keon, or even Okai slotting into that other spot.
     
  5. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC Still Lazy After All These Years

    FC Vaduz / Philadelphia Union
    Jan 7, 2010
    Andalusia, PA
    Club:
    FC Vaduz
    As much as we all would like it, there's gotta be no way that Hackworth starts all 3 of McInerney, Le Toux, and Casey at the top to start the season, especially since Hack hasn't ever played a 4-3-3, but has played a 4-5-1. If we start all 3, then we only have Hoppenot to come off the bench in the attack, and I just don't see Hackworth putting himself in that position.
     
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  6. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about Hoffman?
     
  7. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Hack truly wants to trot out a 4-3-3

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC Still Lazy After All These Years

    FC Vaduz / Philadelphia Union
    Jan 7, 2010
    Andalusia, PA
    Club:
    FC Vaduz
    Even still, are you confident in your bench if you have Hoffman and Hoppenot coming on for any combination of McInerney/Le Toux/Casey? I'm not. Not all all. I still don't see a 4-3-3 because a 4-3-3 never existed under Hackworth. It was a 4-5-1. Unless McInerney, who is right-footed is going to play as a left winger, which is a position he's never played in MLS in 3 previous seasons, it's not going to happen. Are you comfortable having the guy who was your leading scorer last season in a lone striker position, who is right-footed, and has never played as a left wing in MLS after 3 seasons in the league, as your starting left wing in a 4-5-1? I surely am not.
     
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  9. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For what it's worth, all three played up top together today. There was a lot of overlapping and switching between the three. Also, traditionally teams that play a 4-3-3 tend to sub out their MF's because the MF's tend to do a ton of work. So only having one or two forward options on the bench is not that big of a deal, seeing as you really only have 6 sub options after you account for a substitute goalie.

    Saying that the "4-3-3" that Hackworth used last season was really a "4-5-1" may very well be correct. We also have to realize that once Pajoy was traded and Adu faded out of Hack's plans the team didn't really have any true wing options, and was using MF's in the winger spots. Low and behold the MF's turned wingers tended to drift back into MF instead of playing more up top. I'm not arguing with you, just making an observation on what I saw at the matches last season.
     
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  10. ImissTHEheat

    ImissTHEheat Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If this thread is about arriving at an answer for:

    Who are our best XI?
    How do we get our best XI on the field at once?

    Minus Valdes and Adu, I think this is a credible and even likely-to-be-seen-on-gameday answer to both of those questions. Further, make one change, say, Cruz or Daniel for McInerney and bring the sub down to the left midfield, and this can morph back into personnel for an empty bucket 4-2-2-2. Decidely offensive to decidedly defensive in one sub.
     
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  11. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except that Hackworth will want to get Cruz on there somehow. :whistling:
     
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  12. ImissTHEheat

    ImissTHEheat Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Edited my post to include such a scenario just as you were quoting it.
     
  13. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

    Nov 7, 2009
    Lawrenceville
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How are we supposed to move the ball in midfield? While this likely will be our starting 11 Day 1, this formation seems so hideously unsuited for anything but hoof ball.
     
  14. SmashtheVan

    SmashtheVan Member+

    Jan 13, 2009
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're not giving Okugo enough credit as someone who can string passes together.
     
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  15. EmeraldDawn

    EmeraldDawn Member+

    May 11, 2008
    Brick, NJ
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Total agree. Carroll started a few counter attacks himself last year, as well.
     
  16. ImissTHEheat

    ImissTHEheat Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Pennsylvania
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think "hoof ball" assumes a lot of ineffective play directly out of the back, but such direct play could be more effective now with a legitimate target though I understand the concern. I would anticipate that you can also expect a high press from time to time in the 4-3-3. And, I think anytime that you have Seba on the field, and Jack to some extent, the counter attack is a threat.

    In terms of attractive, possession soccer, I think that is something likely to develop as the formation and this group spend more time together on the field. You could have 4 new starters on this side (Casey, Le Toux, Parke, Soumare) for game 1 and, if played as a 4-3-3 and not a 4-5-1, a brand new system for most of these players.
     
  17. G-Ho Blue

    G-Ho Blue Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    Philadelphia
    Imagine being down by a goal late, and subbing Torres in for Okugo. That's a ballsy, attacking line-up there. If anybody can hold a 4-1-2-3 together defensively, it's Capt. Carroll.
     
  18. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

    Nov 7, 2009
    Lawrenceville
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure he can, but Okugo, Caroll, and Marfan all lack the creativity and poise to pull the strings. Our attacks last year were too predictable and teams snuffed them out. All we seem to be doing this year in midfield is taking away our wingers and upgrading Lahoud for Okugo. I don't see how you can argue that an Okugo, Caroll, Marfan midfield is built for possession. It's very clear we'll end up hoofing the ball.
     
  19. christie3

    christie3 Member

    Dec 13, 2007
    Rising Sun, MD
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But then if we are moving forward we either have Garfan or Williams going down the flanks adding a little bit more to the attack.
     
  20. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is? How so? Caroll, Okugo and Marfan are 3 of the best passers on this team. Marfan is one of the best with the ball at his feet. Add in the fact that it now appears THREE forwards will be playing up top (instead of you know, 2 converted MF's who tended to drift back into the MF gumming things up and not making any runs fwd). Also, Okugo has very good vision when passing. He was a very good distributor last season out of the back. Amobi moving into the Midfield should help the link play between the Defense/MF/Fwds. On paper at least.

    It's been stated that Soumare prefers to play the ball out of the back on the deck, similar to Okugo. Does anyone know or have a general idea of how Parke plays on Defense? Does he play the ball on the deck, or does he Hoof it fwd?
     
  21. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

    Nov 7, 2009
    Lawrenceville
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Michael Farfan was miserable in the CAM spot last year. Michael in the center of the field is a waste when he should be out on the wing. Combine him with two DM's, and I don't see where we will find any creativity in the midfield. The Union lacked creativity and ideas last year. While Okugo can deliver the long ball, do we have any to suggest he can provide the probing through balls? He's a CDM and not a CAM for a reason. I don't see how the same cast minus our most talented (even if he didn't demonstrate it) attacking player is suddenly going to much better. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    I've made this argument too damn much, but we shouldn't depend on our FB's in our attack. Waiting for one of them to charge up the field kills a counter, and let's the opposing defense get back. Relyign on our FB's so heavily kills our attack. Besides, neither Sheanon or Gabriel are particularly good crossers of the ball.
     
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  22. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC Still Lazy After All These Years

    FC Vaduz / Philadelphia Union
    Jan 7, 2010
    Andalusia, PA
    Club:
    FC Vaduz
    Actually, that's not true. Sheanon had the third most successful crosses from open play in MLS (13) behind Andy Najar (14) and Ashtone Morgan (20). Sheanon is considered one of the best right backs in the league because of his ability to hit successful crosses in open play.
     
  23. SmashtheVan

    SmashtheVan Member+

    Jan 13, 2009
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Forget about waiting for Sheannon or Gabe to get back, we're going to have to deal with another year of Le Toux "hustling" back on defense(where we have Carroll, Okugo, Parke, and Soumare already covering) and not being an outlet for a counter attack. That's what got me fed up with Seba in '11. Sure, he works hard, but he doesn't work smart, and it holds back the whole team when he's not in position.
     
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  24. G-Ho Blue

    G-Ho Blue Member

    Feb 21, 2008
    Philadelphia
  25. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We never really HAD wingers. All our midfielders drifted inside anyway.
     

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