Other Team Discussion Thread Vol. 12: Spoilers Within

Well MLS survived without New York for 17 years, so you argument is bullshit already

 

Of course the league could survive without them, that's not the point I was making. The league could theoretically survive with no teams having a SSS or with a new rule saying there are no DPs allowed. So what? You want to be a big boy league, you need big boy money and big boy cities. As much as I dislike NY and LA clubs, it's stupid to think the league could grow into anything significant without them.

That's one argument, sure, but I am making the argument that what is done is done. Those clubs exist and no one is saying shut the doors. The league made a number of smart moves in recent years, from Portland to Seattle, Montreal and now seeking another NY club. In terms of growth, these are sound decisions. As annoyed as all will be at the league for not helping us, it doesn't take away from the fact that it is a sound business decision. As the league moves forward it should look at the cities that didn't work (or struggle) and make decisions based upon that. That means sorry Minneapolis, sorry the entire Midwest, sorry the South. It's SE and NY and then stop for a while.

With regard to building more NASL/second tier clubs, I agree completely.

 

What I want is a competitive league. The level of play I can wait on - I have since '96. And I'm under no impression that in the US we will or SHOULD be ENG/GER/SPA/ITA. Being (and paying for) BRA/NED/ARG/MEX would be attainable and sustainable. And under our model it would STAY competitive.

 

Yes - It grates on our nerves to perceive this - Just don't pay attention to the fact that breaking up championship teams was also done to Chicago shortly after they won and to LA when the won early as well - It was done to EVERYONE back then - Teams won with players at average salaries - MLS/HQ (which controlled salaries back then) said, "You got really good players - They deserve to be paid a lot more - We're raising their salaries" - Then they turned around and said, "Hey - You got a salary cap problem - You need to trade away some of those high-priced players" - DC United won more often so it occurred to us more often, but it did occur to all the early winners

Since then, I sorta agree that the grandfather DP rules favored LA and some tweaking was done to favor NY, but we got our beak wet, as well, with Freddy and a few others

 

We're we really dying for Adu? The league jiggered the rules to give us Albright and Adu but I always thought they were moves more in the interest of MLS than DC United. I could live quite well if DC never lucks into an overhyped rookie again.

 

Look I respect the sentimentality of a small league of fun loving chums. It'd be great if we gave a team to Waukesha Alaska so Sarah Palin can sit in the stands like Queen Elizabeth and then gave a team to Rock Springs, Wymoning. It would be glorious to see the Rock Springs Fightin' Cowboys play the Columbus Crew on ESPN99 (The Noventa y Nueve!). Yea, this is tongue in cheek, but how many people would really watch a Columbus Crew v. FC Dallas Cup Final? Would it even get played on ESPN?

The league has so much room to grow it's ridiculous, and the infrastructure being built isn't necessarily about butts in seats TODAY, but butts in seats tomorrow (or 5-10 years from now). If the league generates more and more revenue, more and more big name stars and expands into big urban areas, those seats WILL be full in that time. If you build stadiums in Minnesota or Atlanta, they probably won't. Chivas is a poor example of utilizing the LA area. Their brand was poison from the start and has only gotten worse. If the club were run like a San Jose we'd have another 20-24k person stadium in LA already filled with fans. California is a soccer state.

For me, my dream for MLS is to have a league where every salary, even those on the bench, is good enough to entice good athletes to play soccer over other sports, so that we have consistently good player and good American players for our USMNT.

Edit- In the end, we're not really even seeing "Super Clubs." LA isn't a super club and neither is NY. As long as the changes to DPs and salaries are incremental (and favor clubs in bigger markets slightly) it's a good deal for MLS in the short term and other clubs should catch up in the longer-term, or not, as is the nature of professional sports.

 

Ah just F Garber

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/12/05/garber-presents-nyc2-stadium-plan-queens-town-hall

 

Children don't choose what to play based on if there is a career in it. Scouts, coaches do this. Read: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This is why MLS has developed academies. Your assumption is that an athlete is in a position to choose their sport. I think that this is rare, but also a person who is immensely talented. I also think you model is on a flawed assumption that soccer runs on an American sports model.

MLB and NFL are closed, all the talent (with a few exceptions) is generated internally, so our educational system is adequate enough to develop talent to play multiple sports. For soccer, it won't be. We've seen it already in NCAA. Right now MLS for American players is a soccer JC, a finishing school before 1st team play (i.e.: goign to Europe).

Overseas, domestic leagues out of the big 4 are not this, its just where lesser talent players. More money wont make these players "better". More money grabs better finished players. Which is counter to developing talent as you stated. If you want those talented finished players to stay, it won't make MLS better - but it might raise the MLS profile. Look at ********metro as case in point.

Sure salary needs to raise, but its relative to expectation that an average American player is worth the average European salary, if we see a net migration of American players, they will address this (relative to P&L). Right now, this is nowhere the case.

 

The biggest mistake this league ever made was TFKAM and Red Bull has carried on that legacy. Columbus and Lamar Hunt gave us the soccer specific stadium. As always, Mr. Hunt was thinking ahead of the crowd.

 

It's not just about the money. It's about having a product that is cool, polished, 'serious, 'growing' and prestigious.

Athletes choose between sports all the time based on the prestige of the sport in their area, the potential monetary benefits of one sport over the other and their potential to excel at one over another (they choose when they are very young, they choose as they age) and other factors. It's not uncommon at all for an athlete to have a potential scholarship for multiple overlapping sports before they attend University. Are you going to tell me that a kid who can choose between Baseball and Soccer (great at both) is going to choose Soccer with a payout of between 30,000 and 300,000 a year? It's not just about the money, but the local prestige of the sport, which is why football is God in Texas and soccer is God no where here yet. Part of growing the league and drastically increasing revenues is to make soccer here cool- better stadiums, better experiences, better players/play, higher level USMNT play, broader exposure among social groups. If we're talking about the exceptional athlete, then whether it's rare or not is irrelevant. Even 5 or 6 'star' American soccer players choosing instead to play baseball or football is bad for the league.

Academies and University soccer alike benefit from the changes that are being made to the league right now (including a NY2 and perhaps a successful Florida team). I just don't get how 'not growing' the league benefits anything at all. And I simply can't agree with the idea that living on a salary lower than a janitor at Yankee Stadium doesn't play any role in people's decisions.

I don't believe this is true at all. If the better players stay, and the gaps are filled with good international talent, then the league play improves overall and everyone benefits from competing at a higher level (training at a higher level and consistently playing at a higher level). If all of the good talent either leaves or never bothers to try, then yea, we're going to continue to be a junior league for the world, occasionally sending a Defender to Milwall.

 

His quote makes no sense. The city of London just got its first Champions League winner going all the way back to when it was called the European Cup and I think soccer has done just fine on that side of the pond.

 

What nobletea said.

This is an American model due to close sports. And I now I know you did not read the Ajax article.

What do you think is livable? $40,000 won't get you that shiny new BMW, but I assure you, it's "livable".

Oh your right! That's why Beckham, Henry and the rest came here, because of the great talent of the league!!! Because no one would pay the sums they commanded at a still capable playing age anywhere else in the world! I mean they *can't even get back to Europe on loan!

You have to be a kid. I get it, if only the league was cool enough for people to see how awesome you are.

 

Bad arguments, purposeful and childish insults and bad grammar. Have a good afternoon Barbieri.

Yea who would want a cool professional league with polished experiences that grows according to demographic changes and offers a high level of play with the intended goal of competing with more "serious" and 'respected' international leagues. Derp a derp a doo.

Garber is Hitler Satan. All sacrifice goats to Dark Lord Garber

 

I'm not infracting anyone over this. Can we drop it now so I don't have to?

 

NP Natty, but I'd rather keep the post and take the card Kovalenko style.

 

I want soccer to be popular in this country -- but not so popular that I can't afford season tickets anymore.

If someone gave me a magic wand and told me that with a wave of that wand, I could make MLS have the same profile and mindshare in the US as the NFL has now -- and everything else that comes with that -- I wouldn't do it.

 

That must have interrupted the Mods' un-holy worship service!

 

So, what are you listening to?
Stillwater.
[hangs up]

 

Just Garber

 

Actually, if you say Garber's name three times in the mirror, he appears behind you and sells you season tickets to NY2.