OT: FSU Politics/Current Events Thread IV

Discussion in 'Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, & the former Soviet Repu' started by Slitty, Apr 15, 2010.

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  1. Slitty Member

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    Please continue discussion here and try to keep it FSU related.
          
  2. yasik19 Moderator

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    So what's up with all the earthquakes? Are we (Cali) next?
  3. LokomotivZee Member

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  4. yasik19 Moderator

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    Just a weird story all around. I have no idea what the US parents knew about the boy and even if they thought he was "bad", sending him back to Russia like that was not right.
  5. FootyFan365 Member

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    Hahahaha :D the fresh new spring line
  6. Drake44444 Member

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    Only a matter of time until some inane comment about Obama working for Stalin by a certain poster until we are derailed
  7. LokomotivZee Member

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    I agree. I also think that US adoption portrayal in Russian media is criminal, has been for sometime.
  8. LokomotivZee Member

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    That is the beauty of this board. FSU talk, to some wild comment by A or B and we are off topic, then slitty or yasik pulls us back on course, then off we go again. It is actually a fun board to read, unlike some even on this site COUGHUSMNTBOARDCOUGH.
  9. Real Corona Moderator

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    I would never adopt a kid from a Russian or Ukrainian orphanage if they were more than a year old. THose places are mini torture chambers and scars kids for life.
  10. Zenit Moderator

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    I used to help facilitate placements within the metro area for Russian kids coming in to the TC metro area with little or no English skills...stopped doing it after I came to the conclusion that most Russian orphanages seem to be trying to run adoption as a "for profit" scheme - the more you're willing to pay, the less maladjusted of a kid you'd be entitled to. For every one that has worked out, I've seen some awful arrangements - kids with severe undisclosed health problems (one that was terminal, within 6 months of arrival, with (of course) no recourse), severely maladjusted kids with all kinds of emotional disorders, kids arriving in various states of addiction, etc.

    Some of these parents had absolutely no idea what they were in for - basically street kids with a 2-3 week intense cleaning/grooming/feeding session, then off ya go, laddie.

    There are MANY good Russian and Ukrainian based adoption agencies, doing great work with little or no funding support from either government, who do make good faith attempts at placement with the best interests of the children and prospective parents in mind. I've personally seen some very heartwarming success stories that only a truly hardened soul would not be moved by. Unfortunately, these agencies get lost amongst the majority; separating the wheat from the chaff is not a very easy endeavor.

    Sending the poor kid back on a plane was obviously the wrong thing to do in this instance - turning the kid over to social services within the US and pursuing redress later would have been a much more responsible option. The child in question is young enough, with professional help and treatment it is not inconceivable that the child could have been returned to the adoptive parent - so these two goofs that perpetuated this are totally in the wrong on this one.

    I'm sure this is not his area of expertise, but I'd be interested in nicephoras' take on the legalities re: redress when dealing with international adoptions, he being the FSU rezident Juris Doctor. There's GOTTA be some kind of international convention regarding this....right?
  11. Zenit Moderator

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    Following one of the hot button topics of the last thread...

    Could one make a case for "ethnic cleansing" of the Russian speaking minorities in the Baltic States? The Russian Federation has alleged this numerous times; no one doubts or denies that the Soviets practiced Russification on a grand scale in the Baltic States, especially the period directly after the conclusion of WWII (1945-52; the KGB Museum of Genocide in Vilnius sells many good English and Lithuanian (curiously, nothing in Russian) histories of this period, one of which I just finished:

    Kuodyte, Dalia and Tracevskis, Rokas. Sibiras: Mass Deportations from Lithuania to the USSR. Vilnius: Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania, 2005. Print (English).

    However - looking at Estonia's language laws and the documented mistreatment of the Russian speaking minority there - does that NOT fit the definition of ethnic cleansing? On the surface, no, considering this definition from Britannica:

    "Forcible displacement" may apply here, as Estonia will not issue Estonian (EU) passports to those who do not pass their language laws - in practice, the Russian speaking majority in Estonia is free to travel in one direction only, that being east - a form of forcible displacement?

    Contrast that with the definition from the US Military dictionary:

    Doesn't seem to fit that.

    The UN definition:

    Well...now we might be on to something. Or is this simply not the same, considering the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans were mostly predicated upon use of extreme violence, to include mass executions and wanton acts of murder?

    Which definition is most correct? Does ethnic cleansing always have to be tied to murder and/or genocide? For me, no, but your mileage may vary.

    It would be the makings of a good doctoral dissertation, pro or con, methinks.
  12. Real Corona Moderator

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    I don't think what the Estonian government is doing is ethnic cleansing. If they were coming around to people's doors and dragging them onto trains heading east, I would change my mind, but otherwise no. It seems to me that the government is simply trying to protect itself from the Trojan horse left over by the invaders.

    What we have is a case of clean up. The country was invaded by a foreign power, the Soviet Union, who did perpetrate ethnic cleansing and tried to settle the region with Russian settlers.

    So in this case, maybe a more interesting question is, how do you clean up ethnic cleansing and -sification? Forty years ago the Soviets cleaned out the region of a good number of Estonians, and replaced them with ethnic Russians. Now that the occupying force has left, what do you do with the tools of that previous ethnic cleansing? Is it okay to use the same methods to reverse what was done to you?

    Personally I think those Russians there have no right to be there. They are remnants of an occupying force. They have either 3 choices. They can learn the language and culture of the country and assimilate into society, they can return to Russia, or they can continue to live a marginal life as non citizens. In no way should Estonia have to comprise itself to please a former occupying power.





    Disclaimer, I am not a lawyer. I am just a humble fellow with a book collection and an internet connection. All of the above are opinions based on my own twisted sense of how the world should work.
  13. goliath74 Member

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    Just wait, Dima will take care of that real fast
  14. Dimuha Member

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    Never going to happen for reasons gone over. It's against human nature.

    And no one's ethnic cleansing anyone, can we stop throwing these words out there ? Genocide, ethnic cleansing...seriously. Estonia wouldn't even think of it, not because of big brother to the east but because who the hell's going to do all the labor, Estonians ? Haha.
  15. LokomotivZee Member

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    Most of my friends and relatives still in the Baltic think this is a most perfect solution. Russians get to speak Russian, and the uneducated, jobless, lazy, drunken yet extra whiny Russian minority is out of their hair. Plus, it would be a non-violent ethnic cleansing, as the Baltic moral code is far more developed than that of our Neanderthal-like neighbors to the East, according to them.

    I personally think otherwise, as I stated in the last thread. Just educate all children in Lithuanian. Let the Russians speak Russian at home. If Russian parents try and withhold children from education, arrest them for Child Endangerment and violating the UN's Resolution on Human Rights pertaining to education, one or two examples would be enough to stop most parents from withholding their children. Plus ethnic cleansing operations always turn messy, and The Kremlin would use it as an excuse to try and exercise influence in the area.
  16. Dimuha Member

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    You Lithuanians know a thing or two about ethnic cleansing and moral codes.

    Lithuanians were notorious for committing mass murders against Jewish civilians in WW2. The Nazis themselves couldn't believe how willing the Lithuanians were to give up and murder their Jewish community. Lithuania's Jewish community suffered more than any other in terms of percentage killed.

    http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=163500

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/9652294004/luggageonsale-20/"]Amazon.com: The Massacre of the Jews of Lithuania (9789652294005): Karen Sutton: Books[/ame]
  17. Dimuha Member

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    Come to think of it, knowing what Lithuanians are capable of this is actually quite scary. Lithuania had a large Russian speaking Jewish minority, this is what happened.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

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  18. Dimuha Member

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    Lithuanian collaborator speaks, hopefully Lithuanians makes an effort to come to grips with their murderous, shameful actions. When they back stabbed their Jeiwsh community and massacred nearly all of them.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie1Foxs40NU"]YouTube- Remembering Lithuania's Jewish 'killing field'[/ame]
  19. LokomotivZee Member

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    Ah, Dima and his lovely school of bright red herring. I could bring up Russia's MASSIVE body count, but there would be no point, as you would either A) Claim it never happened, or B) Just use another red herring to distract for the fact you are wrong.

    As for the murder of Jewish people in Lithuania? It happened. I never denied it happening. I'm not proud of it. What does it have to do with a bunch of uneducated, jobless Russians in Lithuania?
  20. LokomotivZee Member

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    This is so cute. Are Russians going to come to grips with their own anti-semitic, let alone all the other, atrocities with us? Or are we going to do this alone?
  21. Dimuha Member

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    Hmm, please cite an example of Russian civilians murdering an ethnic minority in mass. :confused:

    It does have something to do with the Russian speaking minority. Last time you Lithuanians got drunk and pissed off you nearly murdered your entire Russian speaking community.
  22. Dimuha Member

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    Do you have an example of Russian civilians coming in and murdering Lithuanians and Jews by the tens of thousands ? :confused: Not KGB/NKVD, but civilians.
  23. LokomotivZee Member

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    Thats convenient, your body count is not the same because it was done by men in uniform. Please.
  24. Dimuha Member

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    Yes, under communist orders, why would Russians want to commit mass murders against Lithuanians ? :confused: btw, do you have an example or two that shows Soviet soldiers piling up hundreds of Lithuanian bodies in mass graves or something ? Every Soviet ethnic group suffered last time I checked.

    You speak of morality yet Lithuanians brutally murdered over 100,000 thousand people in a span of a few years. So who's the moral one ? :confused:
  25. Real Corona Moderator

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    Can we all ignore Dima so we can have a constructive conversation?

    You can't do that, the trains path, it gets ugly and you just end up on the list of bad guys. Your plan has merits and it sounds similar to mine. I guess we agree that there is no way you can let them in the door, ie citizenship.
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