2005. So "since 2005" means "including two thousand ********ing five." You're the one who spent a ********ing hour kvetching about the meaning of the word "winningest." What you'd be looking for would be "since 2007," which is when Toronto FC joined the league. You know, if you're interested in being clear.
for somebody who is ostensibly a professional journalist/broadcaster your grasp of english is pretty rubbish: Definition of SINCE 1 : from a definite past time until now <has stayed there ever since> 2 : before the present time : ago <long since dead> 3 : after a time in the past : subsequently <has since become rich> since can both be including and subsequent (but not including) the referenced time ... and since earlier in this thread we clearly discussed how the 2005 expansion teams were the last teams to be admitted to the league without concrete an appropriate stadium situations i think a rational and intelligent person would be able to tell from context clues that the 3rd usage of the word since is what was being used ... but then of course we are talking about you afterall so i can see where the confusion arises.
Interesting stuff here. If the city of Orlando puts up 175 or 200 million dollars to renovate the Citrus Bowl, how concerned do you really think they'll be about conforming some of that renovation around a soccer franchise that eventually plans to build its own soccer stadium anyway? Unless Orlando City planned to play at the Citrus Bowl long term, IE with no plans for a SSS of their own, I wouldn't expect the city or Orange County tax payers to give much of a hoot about allocating any of that money towards making the CB soccer friendly. And having been to the stadium for a City game with over 10k fans there, I'm not buying the argument that the CB would hurt game day atmosphere. THIS HURTS ME TO MY SOUL TO SAY AS A TAMPA BAY SUPPORTER, but 18 to 20k filling most of the lower sections of the CB would look and sound just fine if 20k fans are as enthusiastic as 10k were during that league final. My major concern would be the overall dumpiness of the Citrus Bowl. The place is falling apart and I believe it if someone says it'd take every bit of 185 to 200 million to fix the place up. That just seems like a shit ton of money to spend on putting lipstick on a pig. If I were Rawlins I'd do everything in my power to get a SSS right away, rather than dealing with the Citrus Bowl at all. And if I were MLS and Don Garber I'd insist that he do the same.
I've described it as "lipstick on a pig" myself. As an Orlando resident, I myself am more concerned on why they are wasting $400 million (much of it public) on a boondoggle Performing Arts Centre. The county mayor almost cancelled it last year after she was elected. Although it was "saved", there has been zero progress on it since. They combine those, they could replace the Citrus Bowl. Or they could get the renovation done now, and build an SSS. The problem with the CB, speed, is that the 100s fit around 15k. The entire lower bowl is about 45,000, so there are twice as many mezzanine seats as "lower bowl". The actual renovation calls for the lower bowl (100s and 200s) to be demolished and rebuilt as a full bowl.
You are a great poster 'rays' but you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to the PAC. There has been plenty of progress made to the construction of it. They are finalizing the logistical infrastructure on the backend to launch fundraising and the building of the DR. Phillips Center for Performing Arts. They are litarally on the verge of bringing in some MAJOR players from around the country to assist the the nine figure fundraising campaign. Take this to the bank, the PAC is getting built. I have PLENTY of insider knowledge to tell you first hand theis project is moving forward. Taking the funds for the PAC project is simply no longer an option. I have a feeling that after this week, we will have a much better idea what the long term strategy is for OCSC and the City of Orlando when it comes to the future of a SSS or the Citrus Bowl....
How long have they been doing backend planning? Four or five years? Until they put a shovel in the dirt, they haven't done jack shit. And it doesn't change the fact that it's a waste of our taxpayer dollars.
That is your opinion. I respectfully disagree. I think in the long term, it will bring tax dollars, prestige, events and cultural value to Orlando that is significant and of much value. For me there is much more to life then just sports. Think what you want of the project. I personally don't care and it is of no consequence just like me being in favor of the PAC does not matter. I will tell you this though; the PAC is getting built. Money talks and money is moving fast and furiously to get this project started VERY soon. The improved Central Florida economy is propelled this project to get finally started in these next few months. Again, this is NOT an opinion, this is fact. I have a funny feeling a major announcement with regards to a SSS or the Citrus Bowl will be dropped when Garber gets here later this week. I know nothing for certain, but I am hearing lots of rumors.....
I'm sorry, the PAC is a hot-button for me. I don't need to hear any rumors to think something might come down at the Town Hall. I know the way Buddy deals. He's probably already got a game plan to get something built. And if 2014 is what MLS is looking at for #20, I have a feeling Buddy will do what it takes to make sure it's Orlando.
Slowly but surely. It's hardly booming, but tourism in particular in Orlando has boomed since Harry Potter opened at Universal. Since the TDT is the important tax vehicle to get stuff done, that's a big deal.
I hear ya Rays, all I am saying is that your original suggestion of taking PAC money is simply no longer an option. Agree to disagree on that topic. At the end of the day, this isn't the performing arts message board. You are right about Buddy though. He moves quick behind the scenes and the liklihood of the rumors I am hearing about land near downtown being allocated towards building a new SSS, may very well have some weight behind it. Time will tell. Yes 'SoccerPrime', the Central Florida economy is improving significantly. I don't know if you actually live here or not, but all major industries in the area are hiring right now. Projects that have been on hold for years and growth plans that were stalled are now moving forward. With the exception of forclosures, all statistics back what I am seeing on the ground.
That is exactly what I am talking about. If it's about the land due west of the Geico Garage, then we are likely closer than anybody imagined. The thing is, there is ambiguity about where the new RDV headquarters is going, and what exactly its scope is. My thought is that it is going due west of the Amway Center (since they commonly mention including the businesses along west Church Street in the project), but I don't know who exactly owns what in the land to Amway Center's west and southwest. The question I have is, who are the "extra investors" The Sporting News recently said were waiting in the wings, and what exactly are they willing to do? Prime used to live here, but moved to Salt Lake City. In addition to tourism, we also have the Medical City gearing up in Lake Nona. And as long as Madden is going strong, EA Tiburon will always be here.
i hate to be that guy who said "i told you so" ... but i told you so http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/03/01/orlando-city-put-mls-ambitions-show-commissioner
Certainly seems like MLS and Garber are not going to be very interested in anything to do with the Citrus Bowl. Good luck getting a stadium, you guys. Probably going to be a hell of a fight even if this bid gets that far.
So Orlando can use Citrus Bowl until the new stadium is done. A CB that has no primary tenant and a owner (City of) that is willing to work with OCSC. On the other hand, you have NYC, where they have only temp places like Mets' stadium, which will cost a lot and when NYC builds their stadium, it will cost 3x what it will in Orlando. My money is on Orlando.
You guys keep insisting that you'll be allowed to use the decrepit Citrus Bowl. But you don't really have anything to back that up with. A price tag of nearly 200 million dollars has already been put on the type of renovation that the stadium would need in order to be useful more than one or two games a year. And we all know what happens to price tags that get put on things before actual contractors are hired and work begins... And again you'd need to have whoever is approving the final design to be in your corner as far as making the CB more soccer friendly. But knowing that ultimately OC$C will be building their own stadium, how likely is it, or even how fair to tax payers is it, that ANY of a potential CB restoration is catered to a soccer team? The place is crumbling. I'd go as far as to say it's a giant pile of shit of a stadium and can't help but wonder why the city would put 200 million+ into it rather than just building a shiny new stadium? They certainly aren't going to do so on behalf of a MLS team that doesn't even plan to use the place more than a season or two. So again, good luck. Rawlins needs to come up with a SSS and have broken ground on it if he plans on using the CB as a temporary home. It might be one thing if the CB were a modern stadium, MLS and Garber probably would be more open to you playing there temporarily, but it isn't.
the reports coming out of the meeting clearly point to needing to "build a SSS" ... no mention of renovation or temporarily playing somewhere else. which is what i've been saying all along ... of course it is hard to come to terms with a new reality sometimes ... so i am not surprised some people are still trying to cling to the CB renovation as a temporary measure thing ... it isn't in the cards ... MLS and Garber want any MLS Orlando team in a SSS not a renovated CB. that was made clear from multiple reports on the QA. now this means that any OCSC in MLS might be a few years away ... however long getting approval, financing squared away and construction at least started ... and most OCSC fans don't want to think they will have to wait that long. i put the odds at even playing one full season in the CB while a SSS is finished at 50/50. the odds at playing in a CB for more than one season at 0. mot likely is that the debut of OCSC in MLS will be in a new SSS or at worst like Montreal/SKC and the SSS would open sometime mid-season or before.
For your stadium-wanking pleasure, Orlando's satellite images on Google Maps and Google Earth just got updated to January 3, 2012. And Field 30 of the WWOS, where we just played our friendly with Old Dominion, was a patch of dirt on that day. Field 28, behind the team benches, was only half sodded. I'm impressed. Also, they're about to finish New Independence Parkway. The long-sought connection between Universal Blvd. and John Young Parkway is on its way.
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/ml...er-don-garber-spoke-2012-season-jeff-carlisle "Orlando came out of the blue. They had 11,000 people at [the USL PRO] final. They've got a great ownership group. They've got a number of potential stadium opportunities. That wasn't even on our radar screen a year ago."
Whoa, whoa, whoa... a number of stadium opportunities? (These were The Don's words in the interview linked, BTW.) I'd love to hear about this, and why this wasn't expounded upon at the town hall.
Kinda reminds me of listening to some of the interviews with Rawlins and Heath and others on the local tv news sports guys. Everyone asked them the same questions about attendance at games, at the final. They answered from 10,000 to 13,000, pretty decent range. I wonder if Buddy, Phil, Teresa and Don all heard some numbers and then with nothing official, the number went from 1 to "a number of opportunities". Lets think about it, we know there are a ton of potentials. Just is there any substance behind them?
I asked about the "possibilities" on a team mailbag request on Facebook. This is their answer: "We're not prepared to discuss that at this time." So there is something on behind the scenes. We just have to wait and see, and until then keep working to get support for Orlando City as high as possible.