National REGISTER of Historic Places. Just saying. Buddy may say he wants it, but if that's the case, then why didn't he throw it in with Downtown Master Plan 3? With all the money we wasted on the boondoggle PAC, why couldn't he have finally resurrected that zombie stadium? As bad as the Citrus Bowl is, at least it's not nearly as bad as Tinker Field. That craphole has been sitting pretty much derelict for the past 10 years. I'm willing to bet they pay Lake Highland Prep to play there.
I don't think being on the Register means you can't renovate. It just means you'll lose certain tax benefits and/or access to federal monies to maintain the property. ----------- Sec. 60.2 Effects of listing under Federal law. The National Register is an authoritative guide to be used by Federal, State, and local governments, private groups and citizens to identify the Nation's cultural resources and to indicate what properties should be considered for protection from destruction or impairment. Listing of private property on the National Register does not prohibit under Federal law or regulation any actions which may otherwise be taken by the property owner with respect to the property. (a) The National Register was designed to be and is administered as a planning tool. Federal agencies undertaking a project having an effect on a listed or eligible property must provide the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation a reasonable opportunity to comment pursuant to section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, as amended. The Council has adopted procedures concerning, inter alia, their commenting responsibility in 36 CFR part 800. Having complied with this procedural requirement the Federal agency may adopt any course of action it believes is appropriate. While the Advisory Council comments must be taken into account and integrated into the decisionmaking process, program decisions rest with the agency implementing the undertaking. (b) Listing in the National Register also makes property owners eligible to be considered for Federal grants-in-aid for historic preservation. (c) If a property is listed in the National Register, certain provisions of the Tax Reform Act of 1976 as amended by the Revenue Act of 1978 and the Tax Treatment Extension Act of 1980 may apply. These provisions encourage the preservation of depreciable historic structures by allowing favorable tax treatments for rehabilitation, and discourage destruction of historic buildings by eliminating certain otherwise available Federal tax provisions both for demolition of historic structures and for new construction on the site of demolished historic buildings. Owners of historic buildings may benefit from the investment tax credit provisions of the Revenue Act of 1978. The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 generally replaces the rehabilitation tax incentives under these laws beginning January 1, 1982 with a 25% investment tax credit for rehabilitations of historic commercial, industrial and residential buildings. This can be combined with a 15-year cost recovery period for the adjusted basis of the historic building. Historic buildings with certified rehabilitations receive additional tax savings by their exemption from any requirement to reduce the basis of the building by the amount of the credit. The denial of accelerated depreciation for a building built on the site of a demolished historic building is repealed effective January 1, 1982. The Tax Treatment Extension Act of 1980 includes provisions regarding charitable contributions for conservation purposes of partial interests in historically important land areas or structures. ------- In any case - is it worth renovation? Isn't renovating an old baseball field into a modern soccer stadium like renovating a 1920s Ford to become a 2010 Nissan? Better and cheaper to start from scratch imo.
I don't know the how's and why's, but I worked for the Mayor for the National Register of Places proposal, and his whole purpose was to get a new AAA team there. Before I left I saw at least 2 proposals to renovate for baseball and Mayor seemed fairly passionate each time.
What Dammit described is exactly what happened to the original Yankee Stadium when it was renovated in the 1970s. Which makes putting stadiums on the Register very problematic, especially if you plan to seriously use them in the future. That being said, I personally think Buddy is full of crap on his AAA baseball desires. And what Prime describes gives me no reason to believe otherwise.
Gee that's a little harsh. I was there and that's what I thought. Sure he could have other plans, especially when money is involved. But he didn't want anything but baseball there in the beginning. Didn't you think I suggested soccer stadium instead? He was thinking a renov CB for the WC would solve that
I'm talking purely about Tinker Field. Like I said, I would've thought if he was serious about AAA, he would've included that in DMP3. Instead you say there's been TWO proposals for Tinker Field, and neither one has seen the light of day. That being said, if we had done a full redo on the Citrus Bowl instead of the boondoggle PAC, I'm sure we would've been included in the World Cup bid this time around. You can't ignore what we did in 1994. Not that it would've mattered in the end since Qatar bought 2022, but still...
I've only met Buddy when he hung out with the Ruckus for a few minutes (we got good pics of him wearing one of our scarves). He's a politician. I think when he realizes soccer fans vote, he'll support some kind of cooperative plan with Orlando City to build a proper venue.
I hope you guys are right. Maybe Orlando City is changing minds and wallets. We'll see. Good luck tonight!
If the line I saw at the purchase side of the box office is any indication, there is plenty of reason for hope.
At the end-of-year celebration this past Sunday, there was some talk I overheard, though nothing certain or detailed, about the possibility of an SSS. The only detail I gleaned from it is that, if the team undertook building a stadium, they would want it as close to the city center as possible. However, in the meantime, I have an idea for the Citrus Bowl that could make it more attractive at least in the short term. We could build a temporary awning roof around the top of the 200 level, covering the stadium area while leaving the field open-air. This would keep the audience shielded from the elements, perhaps making games more attractive on days when the weather is threatening. Most of our sub-5k matches were on days with just such kind of weather. Such a roof could be disassembled or stowed for the major pointyball games, like the Capital One and Champs Bowls and the Florida Classic.
Do you guys think something like this would work for the Citrus Bowl? I'm thinking such a setup might work with guide wires run from the corner ramps.
This could do... but a cleaner look would be better. Do you think there might be some lighting issues, because of the awnings?
uh. you guys realize that BC Place has a roof right? a retractable roof ... which makes it possible to have that inner "lining" that cordons off the lower bowl for Whitecaps games. last time i checked the Citrus Bowl was an entirely open air stadium. so ... no roof, no supports for an "inner" roof. that is pretty basic engineering. not to mention it is almost a century old ... it is even bigger than both BC Place and CenturyLink ... and it has some terrible astroturf. let's face facts .... any money put into the Citrus Bowl is throwing good money after bad ... the place is a shitehole ... "renovating" it yet another time is a waste of money for any sport and espeically stupid for a prospective MLS team that wouldn't need even a third of the capacity on a regular basis. you need a NEW SSS STADIUM ... the sooner you guys get that clearly and firmly accepted in your brianpans the sooner you can fight and advocate for that instead of half arsed measures like renovating the decrepit Citrus Bowl. this is 2012 MLS boys and girls ... not MLS 1998 ... you need a big boy proper soccer stadium and you guys should be demanding just that from your FO and not letting them get away with the self delusion of somehow shoehorning themselves into that crappy old relic of a stadium.
Exactly. I was wondering, why if the city and county have $180+ million for renovations at Citrus (according to Rawlings) can't they use a third of that to make a very good SSS?
Oh, don't get me wrong, I would much prefer an SSS. I just want to make sure all options are on the table.
I have enjoyed the times that we had in the Citrus Bowl during the first year, and am sure that we will have more during year 2. However, I think in the long run we need a SSS that is somewhere good/central. Don't think renovations of Citrus Bowl will be the best option. Unless it is a dramatic one.
Why renovate the Citrus Bowl, For one Bowl game year? The Citrus Bowl is way to big For Orlando City to use. You could build a stadium like Red Bull Arena or Livestrong Sporting Park for the kind of money that would be used to renovate the Citrus Bowl.
I much rather have SSS too. Perferably at the old Amway Area site. Its next to the SunRail station and possibly the future Orange Blossom Express communter rail line. But, that site is already spoken for. But if Orlando were to stay in the Citrus Bowl then something needs to be done to make it more intimate. Just because there is no roof doesn't mean they couldn't engineer something to the affect of the tarps at BC Place. Also, I'm pretty sure the $180 million earmarked for the CB has to be for the CB. It was part of the deal with the tourist tax dollars. Which most likely will be a battle to divert any of that money. The CB host more than just one football game. The Florida Classic (FAMU v. Bethume Univ.) draws almost 65k a year. Champs Sports Bowl will most likely sellout this year, but has been averaging 50k. Cap One bowl draws almost 70k. Which could have almost been a BCS bowl after the Feista Bowl scandal took place. Also they put a bid for the ACC championship game. But those efforts failed because the CB is so crappy. And the Monster Truck Jam sellsout every year. IMHO, its because of events those and the possibility of more like them (soccer friendlies?), that the city and county commission will be hesitant to divert any money away from it.
if Orlando truly wants to put itself on the stage as an "international" soccer city then they truly probably need both the CB (highly renovated) and a SSS for OCSC. a renovated CB would be for potential WC games and other big international friendlies that wouldn't fit in a MLS stadium. the MLS SSS stadium is for OCSC ... everybody needs to get out of their head that the CB, renovated or not, is even a viable option for an MLS team. Orlando is NOT Seattle ... they aren't going to get 40K a game ... EVER ... they will probably get 18-20K and that will be excellent ... and MLS doesn't want, Orlando fans shouldn't want ...nobody wants ... more teams like DCU in their old giant shitehole (bad lease notwithstanding), or NER in cavernous Gilette or MetroStars in the bad old Meadowlands days. MLS teams playing in atmopshere killing giant decrepit stadiums became so anathema that even old school teams like SJE and KCW given the choice between playing in such stadiums while waiting for a new SSS or playing in teeny tiny barely 10K capacity baseball converted stadiums chose the later instead of the former. the more Orlando fans begging to accept even the remotest possibility that the CB in any form (aside from razed to the ground and rebuilt at 20K) is viable are only doing their quest for an MLS team a disservice. the fans should be united in demanding excellence and the best from their FO ... anything less, accepting an MLS 1.0 mindset will only end in failure for the Orlando MLS quest. okay back to the thought. a renovated CB can be for big time international games with a SSS stadium doubling as a "training" complex for visiting big teams and of course the home for a MLS Olrando team.
Rawlins discusses a SSS/Citrus Bowl in this interview: http://nasn.tv/2011/the-best-soccer-show-episode-16/ It starts at around 23:40. Among things said is 1) city has reassured/guaranteed team that money available for CB renovations is there to make stadium as soccer-specific as possible and 2) team is looking into possibility of building a SSS in downtown Orlando area and that it is something the team is working with the city/county but he could not go into too much detail on that.
1.Even with renovations it would be 60k and not entirely owned by OCS. 2. If Rawlins is counting on some public funding for this SSS, that means he doesn't have enough money to own a MLS team.